all 90 comments

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (61 children)

Excellent article, though with regard to the conclusion I'd say I'm a little bit more optimistic on seeing the collapse of modern states and a return to more local self government based on the sheer incompetence in government today. I think the future might look something like Mexico where you have a government that says all sorts of high and mighty bullshit but it has little power on the ground and there are different groups vying for power and sovereignty at the local level.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I think the future might look something like Mexico where you have a government that says all sorts of high and mighty bullshit but it has little power on the ground and there are different groups vying for power and sovereignty at the local level.

If you are referring to cartels and anarchist groups, I am not sure I see anything optimistic about it.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

More referring to the tribal self governing militias that defend against the cartels. But the cartels have their own charm to them.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

Looks like someone's been cartelpilled.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That actually looks pretty fun. It almost makes you forget that cartel members are among the worst human beings on the planet.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I like them for basically giving a middle finger to the liberal woke governance in their country, would be fun forming a group like that ngl. A lot of cartels have helped the poor too. They are especially brutal when they need to be but that's just returning to pre-Enlightenment norms honestly

[–]NeoRail 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think they go way above and beyond any pre-Enlightenment norms, if I have to be honest. I think you are being too generous here.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's also extremely suspect that they're just allowed to operate freely. A conspiracy theorist might think they have license from certain hooknosed authorities to operate drug and human trafficking, similarly to the relationship with the 'Italian' mafia and those funny-hatted men.

A moment's googling reveals the cartel are accidentally armed in the same way that jews and the US arm ISIS. Oh noes, whoopsy daisy!

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's why they never really challenge their governance or status as colonies of GAE. Whenever a cartel gets big enough for that the kikes start gunning against the head and fund rivals. You could see it with Escobar and the Medellin cartel and El Chapo with Sinaloa more recently. Escobar specifically you saw way more ops against him once it was clear he wanted to change the way Colombia ran things politically.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

I'd love to see monarchy take control again.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Aristocratic forms of government are the natural state of civilization and will return. It cannot happen through revolution or choice, it is an organic development. It will not happen for a long time and the current degenerated leftover aristocrats today will have nothing to do with it.

The immediate future is a Statist form of government.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

I think on a longer timescale it might especially in Asia. Are there any salvageable European noble lines or are they all kiked?

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

Are there any salvageable European noble lines or are they all kiked?

I have to say, I do not know much about current state of European nobility because I'm an American. Perhaps someone from Europe can tell us about it.

However if there aren't any then we'll have to form the nobility class once again. It is going to be a long process.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

To my knowledge, the aristocracy is very Americanised and liberalised. Extremely bourgeois people. Usually they're either involved in finance or with humanitarian NGOs, although some have even become adrenaline junkies. The reigning royal families seem to have drawn the worst lot.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Imagine an aristocratic class made up of ethnonationalists. They must have high IQ (obviously) and healthy instincts.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Imagine an aristocratic class made up of ethnonationalists.

This is more or less what the SS was trying to achieve.

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You should read Evola's essays on the SS if you have the time, they are really interesting. /u/Markimus may still have the links.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just need another aristocrat like Roman von Ungern Sternberg to create a new line

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

Were there any notable traditionalist aristocrats in the west in recent history besides Evola? Him and Roman von Ungern Sternberg (absolute legend) are the only two I know of.

[–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Depending on your criteria, I believe a number of German nobility were supportive in some capacity of Hitler and/or National Socialism in general, and at the very least a number of German aristocrats and nobility (including Wilhelm II himself) were extremely anti-semitic and willing to cooperate with Hitler despite disagreements and clinging to archaic and/or jew-created societal elements like capitalism.

Multiple of Wilhelm II's children were even members of the NSDAP, and I'm sure other fascist Third Positionist movements had some degree of success with nobility and aristocrats.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Did any of these aristocrats survive the war ideologically intact? Seems like most NS became willing serfs of the US or the USSR post WW2

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Now that I think about it, Prince Borghese attempted a military coup in post-war Italy. He had some links with Evola and wrote the preface to one of his books. There were some ideas about Prince Borghese heading a military revolution to which Evola would contribute the political-intellectual element, or something along those lines anyway.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

That whole era of Italian history was insane, apparently the radical right at the time was supported by a rogue far-right Masonic temple which was expelled from the main organization

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

How recent? For lower case t traditionalism, there should be plenty, although I could only name a handful. If you are thinking of comprehensive, radical traditionalism like that of Evola, however, there are not many. Evola tends to discuss or reference such people often. He gives very high praise to Metternich and to Donoso Cortes, and he's also made positive remarks on the Prussian Junker culture as a whole, as well as the monarchical institutions of Russia and Austria-Hungary.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Prince Charles funds some Perennial Philosophy club thing, BritNat copers like to pretend he's secretly based and will do some based stuff when the Queen dies. Doubt it but he is apparently a Traditionalism enjoyer.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's genuinely shocking. I had always taken him for a typical liberal. Do you know the name of the club?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Temenos, they seem awfully like feel good yknow what I mean? I haven't read them so I could be entirely wrong, but it feels like a high society version of the typical Buddhism/Hinduism/Paganism/Veganism for libtards. Maybe in their actual work they are doing real critiques and differentiating themselves from the modern world, but on the surface they seem extremely milquetoast.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wonder if there are a lot of people high up that enjoy some aspects of Traditionalism but wouldn't fight for it because they're too attached to their own material comfort. I know a handful of people like that, albeit from the East.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm certain a lot of them read a lot of religious, reactionary, aristocratic etc stuff. I doubt any of them really care about it more seriously beyond intellectual stimulation and comforting fantasy, no different to reading fiction or history.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Say within the last century or two, whenever the liberal world order really became dominant in the West. Seems like that category went extinct by the 20th century with the end of monarchy in Eastern/Central Europe

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Apart from the ones just listed, looking specifically at the 20th century, the most notable group have to be the Conservative Revolution thinkers in Germany. To my knowledge, a good number of those were aristocratic. There were also a lot of aristocrats involved in the SS. In Spain, there were also aristocratic rightists - both conservative and modernist. The Carlists were a more traditionalist movement, whereas de Rivera's Falange was more modernist. In Italy, there was Gabriele D'Annunzio, the grandfather of Fascism, although perhaps he should not count, since to my knowledge his title was bestowed to him later on in life. In Britain, the only notable rightist aristocrat I can think of was Edward VIII, who was more on the modernist side, however, since his sympathies laid with National Socialism. In Austria there was also von Schuschnigg, who I believe was an aristocrat. Southeastern Europe also had several authoritarian monarchical regimes during the interwar and second world war periods. The Romanian one is probably the most well known on DAR, because of Carol I's actions in assassinating Codreanu and establishing a short-lived, astroturfed pseudo-fascist regime.

I have to confess, though, that I am not very well read on 20th century aristocratic traditionalism. I only know of the more public facing groups and individuals, like Evola, de Rivera, the Conservative Revolution etc. I am sure there are probably a lot of other important individuals who moved in private circles.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the info I'm gonna have to read more on the subject. Insane how all this largely disappeared or went underground after WW2

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In Britain, the only notable rightist aristocrat I can think of was Edward VIII, who was more on the modernist side, however, since his sympathies laid with National Socialism.

Mosley and the Mitford sisters, I'm sure Mosley had supporters from these social circles too. This article kvetches about fascist and NS sympathisers in the aristocracy too

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Monarchy is a spent force. Reactionary solutions always fail. We should have a revolutionary vision, not a reactionary one.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What about fascism? It's a mix of reactionary and revolutionary ideas in my opinion.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, but fascism is also a spent force. We need something new.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What do you envision that new thing to be?

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not sure yet. I hope it's something like Faye's Archeofuturism, but it's hard to tell what's actually going to happen. What do you think?

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everything depends on the creativity and energy of the people involved. Without any future political shift, I expect that something derivative of Alain de Benoist's concept of ethnopluralism will come to predominate.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'd say I'm a little bit more optimistic on seeing the collapse of modern states and a return to more local self government

And then they will all get conquered by China or some other imperial power.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

China at least based on its treatment of Asian and African allies will only seek economic tribute. They will never try to subvert local traditions or dilute the local people. Exception of Xinjiang and this was after a couple decades of US funded terrorism which made the Chinese reverse the original position of autonomy.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We don't know what Chinas behavior will be like when the liberal world and all its moralisms and human rights groups go with it.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

An interesting article by an insightful writer. I particularly liked the author's reflections on individualism.

In addition to the economic and social problems, I think it is important to note that liberalism has already decisively failed on a geopolitical level, too. The really high level geostrategists like Brzezinski had extremely ambitious plans that were intended to be completed years ago. The window of opportunity in the 90s was supposed to be the foundation for a truly global order - one that integrates a pro-Western liberal democratic Russia, the Middle East and, after regime change, liberal democratic China too. The US has failed to achieve any of these goals and has instead chosen to oppose these states directly, which according to Brzezinski is the worst case scenario. Incompetence has become institutionalised.

I would also like to comment on some of the arguments in the article.

This was the thesis of Patrick Deneen’s 2018 book Why Liberalism Failed, written before the populist wave of 2016, and perhaps the most reliable guide to the world we live in now. In his telling, liberalism was one of three ideologies that dominated the world over the last three centuries. The other two — communism and fascism — were shorter lived, and died in the West in the twentieth century. Liberalism — the elder brother — is only dying now. One reason for its comparatively long life is that it piggybacked on older stories, presenting itself as the inheritor of established traditions of liberty when in fact it was something quite different.

Liberalism has already died several times. The only reason why this completely obsolete, moribund ideology is still kicking about is because of its willingness to adapt, absorb and shamelessly surrender again and again. Its transformation into "liberal democracy" was its first major defeat, and its subsequent transformation into "social democracy" was yet another. Feminism was also an example of a major blow to liberalism as such. The liberal system essentially relies on appropriating the energies of non-liberal mass movements to survive. As soon as it loses the will or ability to adapt in this way, it will collapse. This is also why neoliberals who chip away at the welfare state are foolish.

Apart from that, I think the author ends up conceding too much ground to liberalism on certain points, specifically on its ability to liberate. If anything, the advent of liberalism expanded tyranny massively, but also brought about greater material prosperity by bulldozing essential social structures which prevented the commercialisation of society at large.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

UnHerd often has great pieces.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I might look into it more later. The quality seems to be considerably higher than anything else I have seen these days.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

So are we witnessing the end of liberalism? Do you think our ideas will replace it?

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, because its central promise - one of exponential material progress - is coming to an end. The radical left's alternative is one of degrowth, but they fail to realize that such a project will strengthen us, not them.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It is hard to tell. At the very least, I think it will be hard to see progress without the development of a coherent ideology and good organisation.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

NJP and PA are all we have at this moment. They aren't very influential right now but as liberalism fall, I believe you'll see more organizations forming.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the Americas I'd say the focus should be less on vanguard parties and more on forming parallel structures that can hold power at the local scale. That has been happening to an extent from what I can see on telegram and on SPLC hatemaps but idk how likely these groups are to take power. In Europe it's much easier since the militaries are all far right so just need to coup once America is weak enough that it can't sanction you to death. When the cash stops flowing the migrants will all leave you saw that with Ukraine.

[–]Jackalope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

I don't often agree with a lot of things posted in this sub, but this article is terrific and absolutely on the money.

Appreciate the reference to Chesterton, his criticisms of both capitalism and communism are on point in my opinion.

[–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I don't often agree with a lot of things posted in this sub

Constructive criticisms are always welcome. Just curious, what particular things/ideas make you disagree with us?

[–]Jackalope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Honestly, its the fact that everything is about race - give me a chance to explain

People here tend to talk a lot about genetics and race, specifically about desirable inheritable traits. Now, if I selected individuals based purely on qualities determined by the alt-right, like IQ, law-abidingness, or whatever else you find desirable, the fact is that these traits are distributed on a bell curve, and even if white people are statistically superior - this is a heuristic. Some white people at the bottom of the bell-curve are going to be inferior to some non-whites at the top of the non-white curve. This makes the idea of white nationalism seem an imperfect ideology in my eyes.

I certainly can respect that some people would choose to live in an all-white society, and I think people ought to be able to choose to do so.

However, for me personally, I value freedom and autonomy more than anything, and would choose to create a 'nationalism' of other people that agreed with me, and would allow me to live how I would want. It doesn't matter to me what their race is as long as they agree with me.

I am no wokist liberal, I am just not a fan of any kind of race, gender, or sexuality identity politics on either end of the political spectrum.

Hope that explains what I mean, I don't harbor any ill-will towards you folks, or even want to deny you the ability to create the kind of nation you would want to live in, I just get the feeling that the alt-right wants the entire world to organize themselves by race, and don't acknowledge it is possible some of us might prefer different arrangements

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

People here tend to talk a lot about genetics and race, specifically about desirable inheritable traits. Now, if I selected individuals based purely on qualities determined by the alt-right, like IQ, law-abidingness, or whatever else you find desirable, the fact is that these traits are distributed on a bell curve, and even if white people are statistically superior - this is a heuristic. Some white people at the bottom of the bell-curve are going to be inferior to some non-whites at the top of the non-white curve. This makes the idea of white nationalism seem an imperfect ideology in my eyes.

This has nothing to do with the alt right, you're critiquing retarded IQ nationalists. We are for our race because it's our race, not because of any quantitative metrics.

[–]Jackalope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I can respect that, and I appreciate you correcting my misunderstanding

For me race just isn't at the top of my list of things I care about

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What's your socioeconomic background?

[–]Jackalope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

White and upper-middle class

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah I figured, it's still rather surprising. Do you just live in a place with no non-whites? I don't think I've ever known someone who hasn't been a victim of some kind of violence by a racial stranger, or at least been in a threatening situation. Have you been fortunate enough to be completely sheltered from this?

Do you think you would have the same anti-racial feeling if you were trapped in a post-industrial urban area, you grew up poor and the area you're from is 50%~ white with a high crime rate? You might look down your nose at the backwards whites, or have contempt for the libtard whites but guess what? If all those non-whites were swapped with whites of whatever kind we all know you would immediately feel safer in this hypothetical scenario; if you had to be dirt poor you'd rather be that way in a 100% white community than than a diverse one. Having to live around non-whites leaves you in a constant state of psychological stress; you never know when you'll be stabbed where I live, the problems of diversity are abundantly clear.

You personally might be able avoid most of these affects but many white people can't, our people are being murdered and raped daily while the state discriminates against us. Maybe the non-whites in your life are professionals with high IQs and you don't travel to the bad parts of town or whatever, but most the people in poverty in America are white. Those white people are trapped and being oppressed.

This is why we are racialists.

[–]Jackalope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you just live in a place with no non-whites? I don't think I've ever known someone who hasn't been a victim of some kind of violence by a racial stranger, or at least been in a threatening situation. Have you been fortunate enough to be completely sheltered from this?

No, I actually have voluntarily lived in pretty bad areas early in my adulthood. I have no illusions about the racial disparities in crime. I don't think they can all be accounted for by socio-economics or police discrimination either. Statistically you are correct, but again the bell curve thing, not all whites are non-criminal, and not all non-whites are criminal.

I actually agree with you that societies would work better organized by race, as any kind of homogeneity makes governance easier. I am not saying race is not a factor, or even an unimportant one, but homogeneity is more than just race. There are a lot of white people that I do not want anything to do with, mainly authoritarian types. I don't want to live in a society where I have no medical autonomy, or can be jailed for possession of marijuana, white people who want that are my enemy, period.

I'd prefer a bunch of non-criminal non-whites that would leave me alone if that was my only other choice

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    He doesn't simp for Arabs, but I am more interested in seeing you expand on that other thing you said. What in Mark's post would an Arab consider to be outrageous and offensive, and why? I want to hear your thoughts on this.

    [–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    We bring up IQ only when woke retards deny existence of race. Of course races do exist and so do racial differences. IQ is one of them. As u/Markimus said, to us IQ isn't everything. We advocate for our racial interests.

    [–]Jackalope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Yes, I admit I do not have great understanding of all the nuanced positions covered by the alt-right.

    From a personal standpoint, my main concerns about governance are just being left alone. I want to be free to smoke weed if I want, and refuse medical treatments if I want. To me, an authoritarian is an authoritarian is an authoritarian, and race isn't part of that picture to me.

    In general I think societies work better when everyone agrees - rule by consent. I think the creation of ideological states might satisfy everyone.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    For people dissatisfied with the one dimensional flatness of the quantitative worldview, there exists also the possibility of exploring a qualitative one. Just in this thread, for example, Evola has been mentioned several times. I do not think that you will get much benefit from reading him, however, since you seem to be attached to liberalism. The issue with liberalism is that there is consent, yes, but it is manufactured consent, which is in my opinion the only possible type of consent in a modern system. Now putting aside the matter of if government by popular consent is truly possible or not, the very attempt tends to transform government into an institution that provides maximal liberty and convenience. The issue with this is that a lot of people are not capable of using their liberty responsibly, and that when the highest human horizon is merely "convenience", division, greed, cynicism and conflict become inevitable as people gradually start to crave for more and more at the expense of each other, of social harmony and of any higher ideals of truth, justice, what have you. The conflict between the Republicans and the Democrats can be interpreted in the same way - they are two cynical, vicious groups that hate each other and are willing to destroy the United States simply to deny power to their opponents and seize it for themselves. It is not a healthy, sustainable or desirably dynamic.

    [–]Jackalope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Evola has been mentioned several times. I do not think that you will get much benefit from reading him, however, since you seem to be attached to liberalism

    I have an open mind, even people I generally disagree with have good ideas, I will read up on Evola.

    The issue with liberalism is that there is consent

    I disagree - liberalism says no rulers, but is generally perfectly fine with rule by the majority (Gauthier is an exception who believes in unanimous consent), to which the minority does not consent. I don't consent to all sorts of shit in our democracy. Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority, so I am not sure that I am as attached to liberalism as you think

    The conflict between the Republicans and the Democrats can be interpreted in the same way - they are two cynical, vicious groups that hate each other and are willing to destroy the United States simply to deny power to their opponents and seize it for themselves.

    I couldn't agree more

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I disagree - liberalism says no rulers, but is generally perfectly fine with rule by the majority (Gauthier is an exception who believes in unanimous consent), to which the minority does not consent. I don't consent to all sorts of shit in our democracy. Democracy is just the tyranny of the majority, so I am not sure that I am as attached to liberalism as you think

    What is your alternative to authoritarian tyranny and popular tyranny? Are you perhaps some sort of anarchist? I should note that typically that last line is considered a major liberal critique of democracy.

    [–]Jackalope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    What is your alternative to authoritarian tyranny and popular tyranny? Are you perhaps some sort of anarchist? I should note that typically that last line is considered a major liberal critique of democracy.

    I do appreciate the works of individualist and egoist anarchists. I have been influenced by Max Stirner's egoism like many anarchist thinkers, but Stirner was very dismissive of Proudhon and never called himself an anarchist. Solutions are a lot harder than critiques. Many revolutionary thinkers have had brilliant critiques of society, and also remarkably flawed solutions (Marx, Kaczynski, many others).

    There are a few ideas I find somewhat convincing.

    Personally, it seems like if 'states' were organized by ideology, the people in those states would be less likely to find themselves in the minority. I also somewhat believe in the 'liberal' idea of natural law as per Gauthier (not Hobbes or Hume). Humans are social animals, and they tend to voluntarily form agreements that have similar features, because game theory shows that these features are optimal and result from people acting in their own best interest. You need laws like 'don't murder', 'respect each others property', and we implicitly agree to these conditions when we form these relationships. Anything past these natural laws should require unanimous consent (manufactured or otherwise, makes little difference to me). Clearly this requires that people have freedom of movement to leave and join societies at their discretion as long as they agree to the codes of conduct.

    Is this practical? I don't know, perhaps not. But it seems like if all the alt-right people who agreed formed a state, and all the people following my unnamed 'ism' formed a state with me, we would both be satisfied, untyrannized, and not violating the rights of anyone else.

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Is this practical? I don't know, perhaps not. But it seems like if all the alt-right people who agreed formed a state, and all the people following my unnamed 'ism' formed a state with me, we would both be satisfied, untyrannized, and not violating the rights of anyone else.

    That sounds very utopian to me - you would not only need to eliminate any scarcity problem that could lead to warfare, but would also need to eliminate aggression in general and ensure the economic integration of all those states.

    [–]negrogreBeing black is anti-white 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't understand why a wokeist would be convinced by IQ differences among races.