You have to list your policies and pitch them to a normie. What do you say?

submitted by NeoRail from self.debatealtright

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[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Can you clarify a couple of things for me? Should I assume that a labour-backed currency would work with single-use banknotes, so that each labour hour can only be redeemed once? If you are familiar with Richard Wolff's work, is it like labour credits that you can "use up" or do these notes remain in circulation? If they remain in circulation, would that not cause inflation, since you would presumably need to print more banknotes to match each hour of labour?

Entirely circumventing the use of currency in foreign trade seems pretty clear.

The second article also referred to this system as a type of FIAT currency, which I find a bit confusing. Transferring control of fiscal policy (like printing money, determining value etc) from a private bank (like the Federal Reserve) to the government seems pretty intuitive to me, but I always thought of that as a FIAT approach and not something necessarily related to backing up currency with labour. I just thought of it as "nationalised" modern fiscal policy, I suppose. I feel like this might differ from what you are describing in some way, though.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Can you clarify a couple of things for me? Should I assume that a labour-backed currency would work with single-use banknotes, so that each labour hour can only be redeemed once? If you are familiar with Richard Wolff's work, is it like labour credits that you can "use up" or do these notes remain in circulation? If they remain in circulation, would that not cause inflation, since you would presumably need to print more banknotes to match each hour of labour?

They remain in circulation and are only issued with public works programs with a predetermined value for each project. Hitler determined that 1 billion Reichsmarks would be put into circulation for his public works programs initially for example.

The second article also referred to this system as a type of FIAT currency, which I find a bit confusing.

Yeah that was my bad. I usually think of FIAT as inherently tied to fractional reserve banking and that kinda stuff but I just googled it and it seems like it refers to any currency that is not tied to commodity reserves. So labour backed currency would be included under that definition which is why the author said that, Kerry Bolton also refers to the Third Reich's currencies as FIAT. So yeah it was just me not knowing the precise definition of FIAT (I got zogged by lolberts in all actuality)

Transferring control of fiscal policy (like printing money, determining value etc) from a private bank (like the Federal Reserve) to the government seems pretty intuitive to me, but I always thought of that as a FIAT approach and not something necessarily related to backing up currency with labour. I just thought of it as "nationalised" modern fiscal policy, I suppose. I feel like this might differ from what you are describing in some way, though.

I don't think it differs, this is pretty much exactly what should be done imo.

Another short Kerry Bolton article on the topic of anti-usury/non-inflationary currency. A Russian villager made his own currency for farmers because they were too poor with rubles to exchange anything, he made his own currency with determined values to simple farm products and the local economy was flourishing. The Russian government ended up shutting his currency down and he came back with a cryptocurrency lol. Pretty interesting stuff.

[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They remain in circulation and are only issued with public works programs with a predetermined value for each project. Hitler determined that 1 billion Reichsmarks would be put into circulation for his public works programs initially for example.

Interesting. What do you think about deliberately induced inflation or deflation? For example, South Korea has for a very long time tried to keep its currency cheap in order to strengthen the position of its exports by undercutting states with expensive currencies.

I don't think it differs, this is pretty much exactly what should be done imo.

Good to know, finance talk can be a bit ambiguous, in my experience.

A Russian villager made his own currency for farmers because they were too poor with rubles to exchange anything, he made his own currency with determined values to simple farm products and the local economy was flourishing. The Russian government ended up shutting his currency down and he came back with a cryptocurrency lol. Pretty interesting stuff.

I wonder if the cryptocurrency stuff will work out for him. I think there have been some issues with crypto in America lately or at least that's what I have heard. I am surprised that the Russian government would crack down on something so low scale, though, but it might have to do with trying not to set a legal precedent that can be useful to the mafia or the black market types. I don't know.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Interesting. What do you think about deliberately induced inflation or deflation? For example, South Korea has for a very long time tried to keep its currency cheap in order to strengthen the position of its exports by undercutting states with expensive currencies.

I don't really know anything about deflation, I remember Mosley saying it was bad in one of his speeches or something but I don't really know how it works. I've seen China also doing what you talked about though, controlling the currency price to benefit their economy I think that's fine as long as it's to the benefit of the state and people.

I wonder if the cryptocurrency stuff will work out for him. I think there have been some issues with crypto in America lately or at least that's what I have heard. I am surprised that the Russian government would crack down on something so low scale, though, but it might have to do with trying not to set a legal precedent that can be useful to the mafia or the black market types. I don't know.

Yeah was probably moreso about the principle rather than the specifics. I can't imagine they would be mad about a small farm village trading lol, but who knows how petty they are maybe there was a jewish judge or something lmao.

[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't really know anything about deflation, I remember Mosley saying it was bad in one of his speeches or something but I don't really know how it works.

I am curious, do you remember in what context Mosley criticised deflation?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was just something like 'we saw the effects of when Britain pursued the disastrous policy of deflation', wasn't really in depth.

[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I was just curious if he was referring to deflation in general or to a historical case. If I recall correctly, it was in the aftermath of the First World War that Britain implemented a deflationary policy in order to match the US. I know you have read Adam Tooze's Wages of Destruction - you should check out The Deluge as well, if you haven't already.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Can you clarify a couple of things for me? Should I assume that a labour-backed currency would work with single-use banknotes, so that each labour hour can only be redeemed once? If you are familiar with Richard Wolff's work, is it like labour credits that you can "use up" or do these notes remain in circulation? If they remain in circulation, would that not cause inflation, since you would presumably need to print more banknotes to match each hour of labour?

Ok I read about it again. When Hitler did the infrastructure projects he issued the MEFO bills (Labour Treasury Certificates) which were 1:1 with Reichsmarks, they could exchange them for a reichsmark and it would be a 1 time use thing like you said. So it wasn't printing new money it was just making 1 billion reichsmarks that were dormant and getting them active in the economy again. Increasing the velocity of the currency rather than the total amount.

[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So they didn't print any money at all? Just inject inactive money stuck at banks etc. back into circulation?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah for the public works program. They could be swapped with any of the banks for reichsmarks, then the banks swapped them with the Reichsbank to get their money back and the finance ministry paid the Reichsbank back over time from taxes from the new economic activity created.

Outside of the battling unemployment public works stuff I don't know though, they probably did print new money at some point.

[–]NeoRail[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alright. Thanks for the information.