If you were POTUS or leader of some other Western country, what would you do to combat the obesity epidemic?

submitted by WorldSharp from self.debatealtright

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[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

The physical labor helped. When doing laundry alone involved a heavy amount of scrubbing, hanging things along a line to dry, rinse and repeat (lel) for everyone in the household, linens, etc.-- this is all some pretty decent amount of calories burned. Likely smaller food portions helped keep them more slender as well.

The low fat, low sodium diets that are recommended heavily now are pretty awful for you though. The human body needs fats to create steroid hormones. We need sodium for fucking everything, definitely not in the levels of processed foods but not having processed foods would be enough to take care of that much. There's a lot that goes into it all, but these dietary recommendations are generally horrible, and I'm surprised they're still used by medical professionals outside of cases involving the kidneys and the goings on around them.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

The physical labor helped.

I'm not totally dismissing this. However, it's a much smaller piece of the picture. You can lose weight and be sedentary all day and you can gain weight while being physical all day. It's a lot more about the food, food timing, and hormones. If the body is healthy and you're eating the right foods your body creates a set point. Which keeps you from gaining a lot or losing a lot if your physical activity varies. That's also why so many people fail at weight loss. They don't see immediate results from changes they make so they don't stick with them. Takes a long time for a new set point to be established. Your body always tries to achieve homeostasis.

Likely smaller food portions helped keep them more slender as well.

This is another myth. It might be true that our ancestors were eating smaller portions but it has very little to do with weight loss. You can gain weight and eat small portions. You can lose weight and eat small portions. The biggest problem here is the paradigm of 'calories'. The modern obesity epidemic is almost totally a result of this obsession of caloric intake and the seemingly logical conclusion that if you reduce calories you will lose weight. Most people that reduce caloric intake will gain weight. It's a black box problem that people can't wrap their minds around.

The low fat, low sodium diets that are recommended heavily now are pretty awful for you though.

Agreed.

The human body needs fats to create steroid hormones.

Not just fat but good quality fats that have not been over-processed, adulterated, oxidized, or turned rancid. People need to get industrial seed oils out of their diets at all costs if they want a chance at a healthy body composition.

The human body needs fats to create steroid hormones.

Absolutely and a proper hormone profile is key to weight stabilization and then weight loss if desired.

We need sodium for fucking everything, definitely not in the levels of processed foods but not having processed foods would be enough to take care of that much.

Agreed. The low sodium craze was wrong headed. A healthy human is pretty good at regulating sodium. Very low sodium consumption is way more dangerous then high sodium consumption. It's all the other shit food people were eating with the high sodium that was causing the problem.

There's a lot that goes into it all, but these dietary recommendations are generally horrible

That's an understatement.

and I'm surprised they're still used by medical professionals

I'm not. Very few medical professionals are willing to stand up against the medical 'system' they are content to just collect a paycheck and not buck the trend. There are billions of dollars of industry monies flowing into keeping the current 'recommendations' in place. If you get a chance check out the youtube channel low carb down under. It's got a team a awesome research and doctors trying to reanalzye the entire food environment. Bob Lustig is awesome. Ivor Cummins is great. Dr. Fung and Dr. Bikman are my two favorites though. Their lectures rock. Fung is singlehandedly bringing fasting back in vogue. Another good youtube channel is Analyze and Optimize. Younger guys but they do a great job digging deep on certain topics.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

The modern obesity epidemic is almost totally a result of this obsession of caloric intake and the seemingly logical conclusion that if you reduce calories you will lose weight.

There are other factors at play here potentially. Let's say you have a person with weight issues that's taking medication for their blood pressure. Anything that fools around with cardiac output is going to reduce caloric requirements, but calorie requirements can also depend on about a billion different things that aren't super obvious. Having a hormone panel pulled, checking thyroid function, taking a peek at what you're eating and determining if there's a massive amount of calories from carbohydrates, taking into consideration water retention from hormone level fluctuations or foods that cause your specific body to hold onto excess fluids.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

checking thyroid function,

This is especially true. Age plays a role. As does gender. Women hold weight differently and have some other factors to consider like estrogen cycles, menopause, number of children,etc. Women seem to have a higher prevalence of thyroid dysfunction but personally I think that environmental as well.

Side note: what are your thoughts on iodine?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113168/

This is a study exploring estrogen's role with the thyroid.

I've read articles on the soil used for veggie growth lacking sufficient nutrients, specifically iodine. Eating plentiful seafood or foods high in iodine would help, in theory. I probably would need to look at studies within a country like Japan and see if there's iodine insufficiencies/thyroid issues. What are your thoughts on it?

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

My degree is history. Diet stuff is just a little side hobby so I can't really speak with a lot of specificity. I went down the iodine rabbit hole a few months ago when I read this pol screenshot.

https://i.postimg.cc/CK70gY3F/1624164093576.jpg

Made sense so I tried some supplementation and it's been going well. For the most part I don't do too much supplementation at all. I mainly just try to eat well, get sun, and exercise. If you want a more technical write up on iodine I believe Raypeat did an article on it.

http://raypeat.com/articles/

The Japanese are definitely getting high levels of iodine with no ill effects. The seaweed consumption is high. (I'm curious if they have lower levels of thyroid problem than westerners?). I think that the daily value of iodine recommendation in the states is way too low.

The other reason I looked into iodine supplementation was on my journey into ways to reduce xenoestrogen uptake and increase test naturally. I got into that particular rabbit hole from Bronze Age Pervert.

You can read about it in my write up here.

https://www.saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/7734/reducing_endocrine_disruptors_in_your_life/

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I ordered some, so I guess I'll monitor results. It's funny, because it's been about that amount of time since I was trying to look for iodized salt that didn't taste like acrid ass. I was using Himalayan pink salt with all the mineral fixins, but I don't eat sea anything. I can smell and taste far more than should be allowed by the human body, and anything that's been in the ocean or water has the taste of dirty water to me, whether it's fresh or not. I have suspected that it's the iodine, hilariously, so I'll have a laugh if I end up gulping down a glassful of the iodine supplement and it has the same flavor.

I remember that thread. I discussed ashwagandha with you there under a previous username that I forgot the password for. Did you end up trying the KSM-66 variant with the whole ground herb?

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I have suspected that it's the iodine, hilariously, so I'll have a laugh if I end up gulping down a glassful of the iodine supplement and it has the same flavor

It does have a bit of a flavor. I like mine in a small amount of apple or orange juice. I've been taking it with a bit of salt and zinc. I try to take it after eating. If I take zinc and iodine on an empty stomach it makes me a little nauseated.

I discussed ashwagandha with you there under a previous username that I forgot the password for.

Awesome. Yes I remember that convo! I enjoyed conversing with you. Because of you I didn't give up on ashwaganha. I did switch suppliers though. The stuff I'm using now seems a bit better. I'm not sure if it's the 'ksm-66' variant but this is what I'm using now.

https://www.jcrowsmarketplace.com/ashwagandarootpowder.aspx

I'm still trying to get dosing right. Seems like if I use to much if flushes my skin. Reminds me a little of a preworkout mix.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28829155/

Study regarding ashwagandha's effects on subclinical (not incredibly obvious, may go missed) hypothyroidism. Since ashwagandha directly impacts the thyroid, you'll want to take very careful notice of any changes. You possibly might even want to have levels checked for TSH, T3, and T4 to make sure that you're within clinically healthy ranges if you're supplementing both. Things to look out for: bulgy gravedigger eyes, feeling too warm all the time, irritability, out of place weight loss. Just keep note, but it's definitely better to get a visual on paper of the levels. There are cases where excessive iodine intake has actually led to hyperthyroidism and others of hypothyroidism to take into consideration.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173722

Back to ashwagandha: KSM-66 is a variant that they've used with the most successful studies that I've seen. The powdered is just something that it might be a good idea to take separately to make sure that you're getting every part of the herb, instead of only the standardized one. It gives some people energy, and knocks some people out. I don't know why it would give you a flush off the top of my head, but is it similar to the appearance of niacin flush? I'm glad you got back to me on how it's going and that you didn't give up because of it. And yeah, that was a pretty great little chat.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The powdered is just something that it might be a good idea to take separately to make sure that you're getting every part of the herb, instead of only the standardized one. It gives some people energy, and knocks some people out. I don't know why it would give you a flush off the top of my head, but is it similar to the appearance of niacin flush?

Yeah, so it looks like the stuff I bought is not ksm-66. The ksm seems to have an additive to increase absorption. I'll try it and compare it with what I have now and report back.

The flush is really close to a niacin flush. It's not producing any redness though just the feeling of increase blood flow at the skin. It's minor so it doesn't really both me.

Thanks for the articles. I will look into them.

Reguarding the hypo vs hyperthyroidism. It seems like westerners are exhibiting more symptoms of underactivity not overactivity of the thyroid?

I mean check out these symptoms. Is this not the average burger or what?

Hypothyroidism signs and symptoms may include:

Fatigue Increased sensitivity to cold Constipation Dry skin Weight gain Puffy face Hoarseness Muscle weakness Elevated blood cholesterol level Muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness Pain, stiffness or swelling in your joints Heavier than normal or irregular menstrual periods Thinning hair Slowed heart rate Depression Impaired memory Enlarged thyroid gland (goiter)

I know there was a military study with massive amounts of iodine (130 mg?) and those participants did not have any ill affects to the thyroid. I don't think there's much danger of over supplementing. Especially since you can't even buy the stronger stuff anymore due to drug law changes. I'm curious how much iodine is actually being put into the salt supply. I don't think it's much.