What would the history of the past ~300 years have looked like if the Jews had never existed?

submitted by ChristianSonnenkreuz from self.debatealtright

Some people say white people are inherently liberal. Recently, Kevin MacDonald released a book on this topic titled "Liberalism and the Western Individualist Tradition." I tend to agree -- Jewish power is almost all soft power and while the majority of voting whites went for Trump, as we know probably about 40% are fully pozzed. Could they do the same thing to the Chinese, for example? Or to blacks?

Furthermore the enlightenment, while influenced to some extent by Jews, was mostly a gentile enterprise [correct me if I'm wrong]. Thus whites only have ourselves to blame for allowing Jews to gain control over our societies after millenia of wisely denying them the opportunity.

So, to what extent would whites have done progressive stuff like feminism, racial equality, self-hate, abolition, gay rights, and mass immigration anyway due to liberal predispositions and environmental pressures? My intuition tells me that this will vary based on the topic.

I'm asking because I don't have a lot of insight here but I'm guessing abolition would have happened, feminism to a lesser degree because of capital incentives, and liberal democracy. Anti-whiteness would be fringe. Civil rights for racial minorities would be very limited. Capitalists would satisfy their greed driven globohomo urges by outsourcing. Mass immigration wouldn't be a thing, we never would have denied race and America would be 90% white. Sex sells so a more limited sexual revolution might have happened but much more slowly. There'd be way more restriction on porn. Trad christians vs. white mild liberals would probably be one of the biggest political divide, like decades ago, instead of antiwhites vs. not-antiwhites like today.

This is just for America. Without Jews Communism probably would have never happened. Russia might have had an aristrocratic reform as was typical in Britain. Volkisch socialism might have formed and been a somewhat fringe ideology. Germany probably wouldn't have been crushed and would be a major superpower, although NatSoc obviously wouldn't have been a thing.

Overall I intuit a world with flaws but with one major difference to ours: the survival of white civilizations wouldn't be under threat.

Any JQ sources or knowledge you have in general is appreciated.

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[–]antireddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There's no way to know with these alternate history thought experiments. There are just too many variables. One thing we can do though is look at an example where Jews had been expelled for a substantial amount of time.

The best example of this is of course England. Which expelled all Jews in 1290 and continued to ban them from their shores for hundreds of years, under punishment of death. During this time England became the most powerful nation on earth. They experienced a golden age that culminated in the reign of Queen Elizabeth and influenced western civilization and world history greatly. So yeah, they seemed to have done pretty fucking good without Jewish interference or influence.

Other European nations experienced similar golden ages after expelling them as well. Sweden and Spain are two that come to mind.

[–]ayotollahsinIran 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Which Queen Elizabeth?

[–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hope you're joking. The 1st.

[–]ayotollahsinIran 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why would I be joked?There have been 2 Elizabeth's and as far as I know Britain s peak came after the first.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Less scientific advancement, less degeneracy, and a worldwide white hedgemony. Israel would obviously not exist. No world wars

It's kind of pointless to speculate though

[–]antireddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I disagree about the scientific advancement. I just cited England's golden age that occurred completely free of Jewish involvement and included countless dramatic scientific discoveries and technological advancements.

The European Rennaissance was probably the most dramatic age of scientific discovery in history, and it occurred almost completely free of Jewish involvement. If you search rankings of the top 20 scientists in history. Most of the lists will include 1 or 2 Jews. Einstein is the only one that always makes the list,and some people consider him an overrated plagerist and pop culture phenom whose "discoveries" were already made by lesser known scientists. Jews have demonstrated an ability to use nepotism to monopolize academia and promote each others alleged genius and accomplishments, but if they were absent those slots would have just went to equally capable whites who are typically less interested in academic quibbling, esoteric arguments and accolades than actual discovery and invention.

Thats not to say there wouldnt be a slight decrease in scientific advancement, but probably nothing substantial.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yeah but the English golden age and Eruopean Renaissance were before the Jews were "liberated" into gentile society, i.e. before 1800-1850 or so. They couldn't have made these contributions if they wanted to.

Jews make up 33% of US Noble Laureates in Chemistry, Medicine, and physics. Anecdotally we can mention Albert Einstein, Jonas Salk, many others who made outstanding contributions to science. This fact also dovetails with the idea that Jews have an IQ of around 110 and Noble Prizes require and IQ of about 140 (I have written several posts on this, now shoah'd) It seems unlikely we could sustain the same level of technological advance without Jews. But, as a Ted-leaning WN, I don't see this as a serious drawback. We could also talk about the impact of higher interest rates which would almost certainly be a reality without Jews dominating a large part of our banking sector. But these impacts would be very complicated and highly speculative

The net negative influence of Jews in gentile society I think is uncontroversial to anyone to our camp. That's why I say these speculative alternative histories are just not that useful, we can never know

[–]arainynightinskyrim 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Some people are claiming that there's a jewish bias in giving nobel prizes, can this be the cause in such high numbers of jews recieving nobel prizes? On Albert Einstein, check Relativity priority dispute, he's famous for formulizing the Theory of Relativity but apparently 3 other guys were working on it before him, Michelson, Lorentz and Poincare.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know a whole lot about Einstein, full disclosure

The idea that Jews are egaging in nepotism and awarding each other prizes is possibly true but unlikely given the prize was started by Swedes (Nobel himself a Swede) and the fact that not many people give a shit or know about Nobel prizes. There isnt the same obvious benefit to dominate this small segment it society vs say, MSM outlets

[–]ChristianSonnenkreuz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Noble Prizes require and IQ of about 140 (I have written several posts on this, now shoah'd)

Do you have copies or the data you used saved anywhere? I'd like to see the evidence for this point in particular. Specifically I was trying to convince someone that it isn't meaningful to talk of IQs over 145 except in discontinuous cases of photographic memory megageniuses like von Neumann.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah I do but not on me ATM, it's on my comp at home. I'll repost what I have soon so /ourguys/ can use it. There was one study in particular on Nobel laureates done around 1955 but I can't remember the author

that it isn't meaningful to talk of IQs over 145

This is true most of the time

[–]ChristianSonnenkreuz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is true most of the time

Can you elaborate? Like when do you think it is and isn't true more specifically. Just curious

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It becomes less relevant for income (less predictive) although it is still a linear relationship. But it's probably still relevant for rare meritocratic contests and prizes like Nobel

There are few people with an IQ > 140. If we assume a SD of 15, mean 100, that's only .0.0038 of the population,.or .38%. That's 4 out of 1000 people.

Blacks and Hispanics, at 85 and 92, basically have 0 chance of being this intelligent, assuming same SD. This is also parsimonious with the fact blacks have won 0 prizes that weren't Literature or Peace (i.e., "fake" prizes)

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/57yq/an_analysis_of_jewish_iq_and_overrepresentation/

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/57yq/an_analysis_of_jewish_iq_and_overrepresentation/jrir

[–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It seems unlikely we could sustain the same level of technological advance without Jews.

I dont see how you would come to that conclusion when I just pointed out humanities greatest periods of scientific achievement happened completely without Jews. Regardless of whether Jews were held back, the fact still remains they werent necessary. So why would they be necessary now? Western societies seemed to have achieved MORE when they were absent, regardless of what percentage of awards they got themselves in recent years.

They dont really do particularly well in fields like engineering and architecture. Things that have practical application. They dont really strike me as being particularly mechanically inclined, which is kind of important when were talking about technology. They do much better in fields dealing with the theoretical, or things involving language, especially in social sciences. Those things are important and can be extremely useful in building wealth, but dont really do much to advance society technologically. Theres not a whole lot of concrete things that they've invented.

As for as the IQ thing, I find it dubious for a couple reasons. First I dont think IQ scores do a good job of predicting the type of genius that drives invention and scientific discovery. Yeah it can help predict academic success and how good a technocrat or bureaucrat you could be, but I've taken a couple and I found them to be highly flawed, and no I didnt do poorly and therefore am bitter. I did better than I expected DUE to some of these flaws in the test. Most people with really high IQs dont achieve much, and it isnt exclusively due to life circumstances and personality. There are very real cognitive abilities that IQ tests simply do not test well, or at all. There is also a huge overemphasis on verbal tasks that can be highly influenced by environment, things which Jews would logically have a major advantage in due to cultural and environmental reasons, but which I dont really see as having any real bearing on the kind of intelligence that got us to the moon.

Finally I'm skeptical of what their actual IQ averages and means are. We can be fairly certain East Asians have higher average IQ than most humans because we have very large and representative sample sizes, and they tend to do well in areas where environment plays the least role. The exact opposite is true of Jews. The sample sizes im aware of are tiny and unrepresentative, and the scores are best in areas where their wealth and academic obsession would help them. I'm talking about Ashkenazi Jews specifically. You have IQ samples that suggest Episcopalians are actually the smartest religious group in the west, and to be honest they are probably more representative than the Jewish ones are, and yet I wouldnt really trust those either.

[–]ChristianSonnenkreuz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The point is basically making hypotheses for the question that is "how responsible are the Jews for the status quo?" Like I know they're responsible for most of it but whites seem to have created liberalism which enabled the Jews and we seem naturally less racist than other races. So technically for any given policy we can suspect Jews these days but we need to look to be sure.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree that's largely accurate. Whites are objectively the least racist race, to our own detriment

https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2020/06/03/american-racism-and-the-anti-white-left/

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a really weird question, because really without Jews and their religion there would be no Christianity or Islam. This alone would change the course of history to levels that would need a multi-volume book collection to discuss. Your implication that the modern conceptions of Britain, Russia or America would exist (I'm not implying Russia or Britain wouldn't exist, both arguably existed as nations before Christianity, but they would be very different culturally) or "trad christians" is extremely unlikely. I doubt I could fully fathom the effects. I mean even "America would be 90% white" wouldn't even be certain in this scenario, even if Europeans did colonize it in such a timeline I doubt it would be Anglo Protestants but probably Romans or Vikings.

[–]Hobbes44 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Americans would be speaking Japanese right now.

[–]ayotollahsinIran 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How?

[–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess he's claiming Jews are mostly responsible for the atomic bomb, and that we would have lost the war to Japan if we didnt have it. The 2nd claim is bs, but the atomic bomb probably would not have been developed as soon as it was without prominent Jewish involvement, as many Jews were scared shitless the Nazis were trying to build one and made sure it was a priority for the US.