Redditors discuss Lia Thomas getting booed at the NCAA Women's Championship

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[–]Femaleisnthateful 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Jesus every comment has been deleted. Glad the mods left the thread up so everyone can see what they've done.

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Give the mods some credit though, every comment is deleted, there's no cherry picking for one side or the other. For Reddit, that's about as close to fair as you can get any more.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

They bleached the entire comments section. I've never seen reddit do that before lol...

Just noticed that was an 8 month old post.

[–]LtGreenCo 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I've seen plenty of these comment graveyards before. Earliest one I remember is like ten years ago back in the Gamergate days, for awhile any thread in any subreddit that even casually mentioned the Zoe Quinn/games media collusion was fully nuked and locked. Threads asking why the other threads were nuked were themselves nuked. No explanation from any mod or admin.

Honestly I think that incident was what sparked the whole Gamergate movement, kinda a Streisand effect. Had they just left it alone it would not have got as much attention.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm still not sure what exactly "gamer gate" was. Like I've read the synopsis about it and know what the controversy was but it's like, nobody I knew who gamed gave a fuck about it or knew what it was. We were all just like, Zoe Quinn? Who's that? She's an activist making activist type indie games? Lol ok nobody wants to play suicide quest or whatever it was she made. Because you know, we want to play games that are fun.

I remember people asking me at the height of it what I thought about it and basically I was like "I have no idea what it is". Seems like it was just a bunch of journalists jerking each other off to create a story. Nobody gave a fuck what game journalists thought anyway, yeah we're going to read the articles of the guy that was sent to the industry game show so we can get a list of the new shit coming out but literally nobody gives a fuck about any game journalists opinions and even less so with the internet.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Gamergate was what made me fully aware of just how much control of the narrative both the establishment media and the media’s chosen side have. The coordination between journalists was something I hadn’t picked up on before as well.

I think it was the dress rehearsal for the trans shit. The media are still refusing to report negatively on the trans issue, despite there being vast amounts of evidence including all the stuff we post about here.

[–]LtGreenCo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep and the chatroom scripts where all of the journalists from different games media outlets would get together and coordinate their articles was eye-opening. It wasn't really about games as much as it was about ethics and bad actors using their journalism jobs to collude together and push a political agenda.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, I'd go the exact opposite way of it being dress rehearsal- Gamergate successfully having the media turn "hey, wait a minute, there's a very big conflict of interest in the coverage of this video game and we feel it's only fair that this conflict of interest get reported!" got spun by the media the people were fighting against as "...so, you hate women. Got it", and it WORKED, was the first moment most men who weren't the prom king got an undisputable spotlight shined on how profoundly unfair life has become for someone who has "privilege" in this world that was impossible to handwave away as "it's for equality" or "equality will seem like oppression to the people in power"...and it just kept getting worse and worse since then.

The trans shit, on the other hand, is a lot of those loser men who've been broken down by how unfair society is towards them finally giving up and going "if you can't beat them, join them", and thus using the same rules that these people fought to say "So as long as I'm a white male I'm going to be the lowest class of citizen? Well, MAYBE I don't want to be a man anymore! Now I'm a trans woman, and that means I outrank you, so you have to give me my way now! Line up to suck my non-presenting girldick now..."

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We were all just like, Zoe Quinn? Who's that?

Zoe Quinn's only notable achievement is whipping up a mob that subsequently hounded Alec Holowka into ending his life. She threw out some unsubstantiated accusations of sexual misconduct which ended up costing him his job--at a dev studio he co-founded, no less--tarred his professional reputation in an industry that was (and still is) up to the hairline in IdPol and "feelz > realz" standards of proof, and made him the target of a frenzied pack of idiots, maniacs, and other assorted human trash who were utterly devoted to destroying him in every possible way.

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It was all terminally online nonsense. Anyone with an ounce of media literacy can glance at "gaming journalism" and tell you that they're all obviously in the pocket of the companies whose games they review. You'd think this was clear from the uniformly 7+ scores for anything made by a major studio. There is NO objectivity because game companies swooped in and payola'd it out of existence before game magazines achieved competency in their writing. It's only ever been a captive media used to give press to big name titles, and furthermore, it's not a big deal, because independent game journalism (like Youtubers) influence purchasing decisions way more than like...IGN. I didn't buy Baldur's Gate 3 because of them. I bought it because of randos on Twitter.

This is all kind of a moot point anyway since Zoe Quinn's game was free and the people who she supposedly "fucked for free publicity" would just have likely featured and written on it had they never met her.

It was funny for a little while to see people pretend like gaming journalism had some standard of quality it needed to gloriously return to, but the fact is it just never existed the way it did in other industries. What's more, much of other media journalism coverage these days is comparable - major names get paid off for films, records; the art world is just an endless money laundering handshake. Gamers are naive as fuck and underneath it all is major incel logic: "Woman gives sex (most valuable commodity in history) for free press for her game (most important thing in the world, games)"

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree with you there, but the big difference is:

This is all kind of a moot point anyway since Zoe Quinn's game was free and the people who she supposedly "fucked for free publicity" would just have likely featured and written on it had they never met her.

No, they wouldn't have done it- because there's so many indie games out there that if there wasn't this controversy, pretty much no one would have heard of the game or the developer. It's a little different than real examples of the lack of ethics, like, for example- Gamespot firing people for giving Kane and Lynch a 6.8 because they were advertising it on their page at the time which are blatant.

This doesn't even hide the problem that incel logic was there as well, since the casting couch is a thing in all forms of entertainment. A person (and the person can be male or female here) trading their body to get ahead in their form of entertainment- be it featured acting roles, be it for a record deal or for airplays, be it for a patron for their artwork, what have you, is as old as there's been entertainment. If Quinn really did this, then the only difference is she'd be the first to do it to get a push in video games.

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't recall all the details but from what I remember didn't she have some personal connections to those game journalists already? So they were probably inclined to feature her if she was a friend.

But again it's kind of moot because it's a free game so it's like...I dunno, fighting like crabs in a bucket to get noticed is kind of just part and parcel of that level of game marketing. I don't fault anyone for fighting like hell to get some exposure as an indie when major studios buy up all the advertising and good will. Not that I think people should fuck for publicity, but I don't think she did that. I think she probably just leaned on them a bit and they went along with it because at that level ethics are extremely fuzzy. And it's the same in other industries. Patti Smith would review and promote bands she was personal friends with in major magazines and that's kinda why Television blew up. When you're broke there's no rules.

If anything, Quinn's success, to whatever extent she had any, is actually contradictory to the larger compromised media narrative Gamergaters were pushing. She definitely should have been ignored in favor of yet another AAA title if game companies had their way.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, but ultimately that ties to the whole scandal as a whole- whether you use the incel viewpoint of "Quinn traded sex for good reviews for her game", or the more reasonable viewpoint you're saying of "Quinn had some game reviewer friends of hers review her game (and presumably give her good reviews because they're her friends)" - either way that is still a big conflict of interest and in any other form of journalism, the reviewer would absolutely have to disclose their personal relationship with someone if there is one in the review or before the review happened [and in many cases, the reviewer would be taken off reviewing the product if they have a personal connection to it.]

The only difference that makes Gamergate more important is- if it was as simple as realizing that, then it would have been a short issue, and it'd be forgotten about by now if it was just left as that. It was solely the same reviewers spinning it as "okay, got it, you hate women."- and it working- that led to the whole thing bombing.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'll summarize the discussion.

[Deleted]

Lol.

I'm waiting for the inevitable scenario where someone else decides to do a Lia Thomas and you've got the trans athletes now losing to the "new girl" complaining about how they aren't trans enough.

[–]MyLongestJourney 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Already done in Canadian Women's weightlifting :

Bearded man Avi Silverberg smashes women’s weightlifting record held by trans lifter

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let an Olympic-level performer "transition" and go against these shit bags like Liar Thomas. You'll be able to hear the howls of outrage and cries of unfairness from where you're sitting right now.

[–]IkeConn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a queer that shouldn't be there.

[–]ID10T 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

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