all 91 comments

[–]killerjavi98 45 insightful - 4 fun45 insightful - 3 fun46 insightful - 4 fun -  (32 children)

Fuck those people who hate this site so much that they put the effort to spam this shit. True scum trying to take advantage of this sites hospitality. This is not free speech this is straight up troll spam to make the site look bad.

[–]magnora7 40 insightful - 8 fun40 insightful - 7 fun41 insightful - 8 fun -  (31 children)

Yup exactly. And they registered 75 usernames and aged them 2 weeks just for this. And then used a VPN and a different IP for every single user, so they had an automated system to switch accounts (like 20 per minute), and automatically switch IPs when changing accounts.

This person was very prepared to do this.

It's honestly ridiculous how much time and energy these crazy people put in to attacks like this.

[–]Chipit 29 insightful - 4 fun29 insightful - 3 fun30 insightful - 4 fun -  (24 children)

To them, it's all worthwhile to get rid of the wrongthinkers. Have you read this? It explains why: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why/

Thanks for cleaning up the mess. We all appreciate your hard behind-the-scenes work to keep the site running.

[–]magnora7 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. It's not that for this set of attacks I don't think. I think it's more streamers trying to shut down conversation that might damage their revenue streams and their "brand", in this particular instance. But we have been attacked because of what you mentioned too, in the past.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

how many times have you posted that?

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

It needs to become common knowledge. It explains why the left doesn't debate, doesn't argue, and its primary weapons are silencing its enemies.

[–]StirringCoffee 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

No one will debate, that's why we have this extreme polarisation going on right now. And you're not helping matters by lumping a large group of people together who don't agree on a lot of things and refering to them as "The Left". By that same metric can I assume you belong to "The Right"?

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Oh, the right can debate. It's not a "both sides" thing. Heck, I've been convinced of several left-wing politics in the last few years alone! For example, I no longer believe in fiscal conservatism. Spend, spend, spend! Max out the nation's credit card, we'll just print more money. That was the Left's view for ages, and now it's my view too. It's the Left that refuses debate, or argument. In fact, they reject the Enlightenment in its entirety. Did you not know this?

Adherents to this worldview will not want to have conversations or debate with people who do not possess a critical consciousness because there’s basically no point to doing such a thing. Unless they can wake their debate or conversation partner up to Wokeness on the spot, they’d see it as though they’re talking to zombies who can’t even think for themselves. Unwoke people are stuck thinking in the ways dominant and elite powers in society have socialized them into thinking (you could consider this a kind of conditioning or brainwashing by the very machinations of society and how it thinks). We will return to this aspect of the problem further down in the essay.

Read the whole thing: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why/

The whole essay is extensively documented and footnoted, and is an eye-popping jolt into the reality of leftist politics today.

Their analysis would insist that their methods aren’t weak; it’s that the dominant system treats them unfairly. By being forced to participate in the dominant system, they therefore believe, they’re being cheated of the full force of their cause. To them, if we set the legitimization of the system part aside, to engage in scholarly conversation or debate is like a boxer stepping into an MMA match in which kicks, punches, throwing, and grappling are all on the table for the MMA fighter whereas gloved punches are the only thing the boxer is allowed to use, only far worse.

Debate and conversation, especially when they rely upon reason, rationality, science, evidence, epistemic adequacy, and other Enlightenment-based tools of persuasion are the very thing they think produced injustice in the world in the first place. Those are not their methods and they reject them. Their methods are, instead, storytelling and counter-storytelling, appealing to emotions and subjectively interpreted lived experience, and problematizing arguments morally, on their moral terms. Because they know the dominant liberal order values those things sense far less than rigor, evidence, and reasoned argument, they believe the whole conversation and debate game is intrinsically rigged against them in a way that not only leads to their certain loss but also that props up the existing system and then further delegitimizes the approaches they advance in their place. Critical Social Justice Theorists genuinely believe getting away from the “master’s tools” is necessary to break the hegemony of the dominant modes of thought. Debate is a no-win for them.

[–]StirringCoffee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

All I see from "the right" is terms like "libtard" and "SJW" thrown around. You call that a debate?

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

That's whataboutism. You neither addressed nor refuted the argument.

That's exactly what we'd expect from an SJW. You don't believe in debate, facts, or logic. Those are tools of slavers and racists.

[–]StirringCoffee 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Have fun battling that strawman. I don't bother with arguements to those who clearly will not debate in good faith. Do you even know which fruitcakes came up with the term Social Justice Warrior? Yeak, that's right. People with an aversion to the truth. Take you BS out of here. You're blocked mofo.

[–]Nub 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

That's whataboutism. You neither addressed nor refuted the argument.

It's not. He countered your point with something you didn't mention. Which is: how the Right debates.

It would be whataboutism is he said

says the guy who thinks X. OR but you post frequently in x fascist sub saying things like y.

Yelling whataboutism is just avoiding and silencing his opinion to your statement anyways. You did the exact same thing he did to the comment you replied to.

This is extremely ironic considering you just said in a comment before that the left are the ones who don't debate and instead just silence.

No one will debate, that's why we have this extreme polarisation going on right now. And you're not helping matters by lumping a large group of people together who don't agree on a lot of things and referring to them as "The Left". By that same metric can I assume you belong to "The Right"?

You replied with attacking "the left" for what you say is their inability to debate.

The left doesn't Silence. The left is tolerant of those with reason and value of human life. If you slander entire races or those who follow another religion then you are being ignorant. You can't just be tolerant of hate and ignorance.

If you want a true debate you need to be level headed and not slandering the opposition attacking everyone left of you.

You responded to his comment by labelling it whataboutism as if it doesn't make what he said true. Then turned it into a personal attack against his character.

You are acting like the definition of the type of person this website was created to exclude with the Pyramid of Debate...

[–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

there's a fat line between informing and spamming the fuck out of something, and you are so far over we can see your pull-ring

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So in other words you don't want this out there, which is proof positive I'm doing the right thing.

I mean, the Left being opposed to facts and logic? Yikes.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

stretch.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Actually, this is precisely the case. Please see: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why/

The critical-thinking tradition is concerned primarily with epistemic adequacy. To be critical is to show good judgment in recognizing when arguments are faulty, assertions lack evidence, truth claims appeal to unreliable sources, or concepts are sloppily crafted and applied. For critical thinkers, the problem is that people fail to “examine the assumptions, commitments, and logic of daily life… the basic problem is irrational, illogical, and unexamined living.” In this tradition sloppy claims can be identified and fixed by learning to apply the tools of formal and informal logic correctly.

Critical pedagogy begins from a different set of assumptions rooted in the neo-Marxian literature on critical theory commonly associated with the Frankfurt School. Here, the critical learner is someone who is empowered and motivated to seek justice and emancipation. Critical pedagogy regards the claims that students make in response to social-justice issues not as propositions to be assessed for their truth value, but as expressions of power that function to re-inscribe and perpetuate social inequalities. Its mission is to teach students ways of identifying and mapping how power shapes our understandings of the world. This is the first step toward resisting and transforming social injustices. By interrogating the politics of knowledge-production, this tradition also calls into question the uses of the accepted critical-thinking toolkit to determine epistemic adequacy. To extend Audre Lorde’s classic metaphor, the tools of the critical-thinking tradition (for example, validity, soundness, conceptual clarity) cannot dismantle the master’s house: they can temporarily beat the master at his own game, but they can never bring about any enduring structural change. They fail because the critical thinker’s toolkit is commonly invoked in particular settings, at particular times to reassert power: those adept with the tools often use them to restore an order that assures their comfort. They can be habitually invoked to defend our epistemic home terrains. (pp. 881–882)

Here, the “master’s tools” are explicitly named by Bailey as including soundness and validity of argument, conceptual clarity, and epistemic adequacy (i.e., knowing what you’re talking about) and can easily be extended to science, reason, and rationality, and thus also to conversation and debate. The “master’s house” is the “organizational schemata” laid out by Kristie Dotson as the prevailing knowing system. Her claim is that these tools—essentially all of the liberal ones—cannot dismantle liberal societies from within, which is their goal, because they are the very tools that build and keep building it.

Bailey’s point is clear: the usual tools by which we identify provisional truths and settle scholarly disagreements are part of the hegemonically dominant system that, by definition, cannot be sufficiently radical to create real revolutionary change (a “third-order” change, as Dotson has it). That is, they can’t reorder society in the radical way they deem necessary. The belief, as both scholars explain in different ways, is that to play by the existing rules (like conversation and debate as a means to better understand society and advance truth) is to automatically be co-opted by those rules and to support their legitimacy, beside one deeper problem that’s even more significant.

The deeper, more significant aspect of this problem is that by participating in something like conversation or debate about scholarly, ethical, or other disagreements, not only do the radical Critical Social Justice scholars have to tacitly endorse the existing system, they also have to be willing to agree to participate in a system in which they truly believe they cannot win. This isn’t the same as saying they know they’d lose the debate because they know their methods are weak. It’s saying that they believe their tools are extremely good but not welcome in the currently dominant system, which is a different belief based on different assumptions. Again, their game is not our game, and they don’t want to play our game at all; they want to disrupt and dismantle it.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

oh for fuck's sake, chipit. you are so fucking retarded.

don't rape, by the way. no means no

[–]justjoggin 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I doubt they’re doing it for free. Keeping any vessel of truth from having too many eyeballs is a worthwhile investment to the bad guys.

[–]suckitreddit 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The person who did this sounds like a fucking asshole. What a loser.

[–]ISaidWhatISaid 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And they registered 75 usernames and aged them 2 weeks just for this. And then used a VPN and a different IP for every single user, so they had an automated system to switch accounts (like 20 per minute), and automatically switch IPs when changing accounts.

This is the League Trolls' MO. This is exactly how they target subs on Reddit itself. I swear, watch this video, this is how they do it. They are now doing the same thing here.

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Were the accounts used before then? It might be strange, but having a warning requesting that REAL PEOPLE should actually use their saiddit account to avoid having them deleted or re-quarantined?

Not sure about an exact solution but I can say that having a new user give normal posts for a few days during the probation period would do a lot to dissuade attackers. But for a regular user, it would not impose any problems, right?

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, they had not been used to post anything.

Not sure about an exact solution but I can say that having a new user give normal posts for a few days during the probation period would do a lot to dissuade attackers. But for a regular user, it would not impose any problems, right?

Yeah maybe accounts that are empty should be deleted. But sometimes people like to make accounts and just vote, but never comment or post. I don't know

[–]SaidOverRed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's nothing wrong with going through a 'I don't feel like typing phase,' which is how I spent the majority of my short time on reddit. But having a user who refuses to type anything as an individual is a red flag on a new account.

I don't like unnecessary hoops any more than the next guy. Scratch that, I HATE hoops. But ... as long as you are up front that you have to use the account semi-regularly and actually put some time in post a bit in order to cut down on spammers or other bad actors, people will feel sympathy.

Remember the old battlenet 1.0 days where it would warn you about playing for atleast 2 hours and not leaving an account neglected for an entire season? People were fine with that, and we aren't asking for much different. And we have much more pressing reasons to ask for those things (attacks) rather than to just save on server space.

[–][deleted]  (32 children)

[deleted]

    [–]scrubking 23 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 5 fun -  (28 children)

    They're not children. They are targeted attacks to quell free speech.

    [–]RAPIST_RAPIST 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

    one possible solution would be to implement a quarantine for new accounts. this would prevent spam floods like this.

    whatever you do, dont get upset by their childish actions.. instead, make a plan to deal with them and then do it.

    [–]magnora7 22 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 4 fun -  (26 children)

    The accounts are all 2 weeks old. They aged 75 accounts to do this attack tonight

    [–]justcool393 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (25 children)

    are the karma-based ratelimits disabled here? something like the RATELIMIT error should stop them normally if they didn't have per-sub karma, no?

    [–]magnora7 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (24 children)

    Hm yeah that's a good idea, /u/d3rr is there a way we can disable posting for people with zero karma for a little bit? They're literally posting 20 times a minute to https://saidit.net/new/

    [–]d3rr 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

    I don't think there's a way to disable posting entirely right now. This is supposed to handle it:

    MIN_RATE_LIMIT_KARMA = 1
    MIN_RATE_LIMIT_COMMENT_KARMA = 1
    

    [–]magnora7 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

    I was pretty sure it was the ice_poseidon guy who is causing us all this trouble, and today I saw this: https://ip2network.win/p/Gv1d4X9M/ice-made-it-clear-days-ago-he-wa/c/

    He has the linode acceptable use policy page in his bookmark bar, right next to the cloudflare abuse report link, also bookmarked in his toolbar. That basically completely confirms it's him doing the attacks.

    [–]d3rr 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

    oh wow. well I certainly hope this doesn't happen in the future with another sub.

    [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

    I told the server company we removed /s/ice_poseidon2 and all related subs as per our agreement. And then it's been an hour and they didn't respond at all, which is weird for them. And so I just sent another message re-confirming that we have removed all the material as per our agreement, and it's been 15 mins and they still haven't responded.

    The deadline is in about 3 hours. If linode does us real dirty they may not respond and just let it expire... so maybe we should prepare for that possibility. Make backups of everything right now please

    [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Yeah me too. I think it probably won't happen with another sub because he is only doing this to protect his streaming revenue, so he really only cares about the communities making him look bad. Plus our other subs don't really break the AUP like IP2 did, so that will protect us too.

    [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Thanks. Look like they stopped last night when i went to bed about 5am and didn't spam anything since (which surprised the heck out of me, tbh).

    It will probably explode in a flurry when I actually ban it here in about 30 mins though.

    [–]ISaidWhatISaid 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    I can assure you some of these "children" are actually adult men in their mid 30s and mid 40s.

    [–]bald-janitor 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    😮

    [–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    FYI, I cannot see your emoji at all. I just see an empty square.

    [–]mikipika 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    If they're targeting saidit, we must be doing something RIGHT. Move along now.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]justcool393 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      it's definitely IP2 related

      [–]Chipit 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      This is a common tactic. Post awfulness, report to upstream provider, get website banned for violating TOS. Worked tons of times before. AHS perfected the technique.

      It can be countered by careful moderation, but one thing I learned is just how lackadaisical and unmotivated a lot of moderators are. They don't want to actually be moderators with all the work that entails, they just want to be able to ban anyone they don't like.

      [–]hennaojichan 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      Why don't you volunteer?

      [–]Chipit 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

      Sure! I've moderated forums before. It's like being a janitor, you just clean up messes all the time.

      Most people like being moderators so they can hurt people they don't like. Sad but true.

      [–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      oh god no

      [–]ISaidWhatISaid 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      This is a common tactic. Post awfulness, report to upstream provider, get website banned for violating TOS. Worked tons of times before. AHS perfected the technique.

      Exactly what I was thinking. I think it's AHS coming over here to carry out the same crap they got away with on Reddit.

      [–]suckitreddit 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

      The person doing this is a loser cunt, but I reported it.

      [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Thanks I just cleaned it all up. Everyone keep reporting if you see more! It really helps me clean it up fast.

      [–]Dragonerne 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      They're mass upvoting content form s/music to block s/all

      [–]Popper 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      that's lame and sad for them but at least not porn

      [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah I see that, one post got 35 upvotes in 3 minutes

      [–]Papitas 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I don't know what was IP2, but it seems it's an angry kid from there.

      [–]TheFlailingOfLegs 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      There is an ongoing shit storm on the Kentucky subreddit. One of our mods over there created a saidit space for us. He added an automod comment that lists the new saidit site. There have been bad actors on the Kentucky sub ever since. People have been constantly bitching about it and trying to get the mod removed. They claim that saidit is full of raaaaaacists (in the voice of Mark Dice). So I made a post yesterday about saidit not being a complete shithole and provided screen grabs of the front page, luckily before the brigading over here started. Someone doesn't want people over here. They want to control the conversation on reddit.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Kentucky/comments/iams7w/many_claims_on_here_that_the_sites_being_linked/

      [–]Excantare 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      Lotta people woefully misinformed about what saidit is on that thread right now. Yes it's alt-right dominated at the moment but that's because leftists haven't had a reason to move over yet. They can make their own spaces...

      [–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      this place has been infested with leftist vermin from the get go. But we've been talking with each other up to a point

      [–]SaidOverRed 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      There are plenty of TERFs here. Remember, there are 3 axes to saiddit right now, and they are evenly spaced at a 120 degrees from each other. I'm more of a basic bitch conservative, myself but I have reasons to speak politely with the other 2 poles.

      That's the whole point. We talk to each other. I'll leave the gore and kiddy pron to reddit

      [–]suckitreddit 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Fuck reddit.

      [–]InLaymansterms 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I was wondering what was going on. Man I didn’t realize how pathetic redditors are.

      [–]gof-urself2 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      nah its ip2 rejects

      [–]Debacle 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      100%

      [–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Hmmm, I wonder who's behind this... perhaps those who already had a history on Reddit of posting such material on subreddits they didn't like. BTW, this is why I have set my sub here to manual moderation, because I knew AHS would come over here and do the same crap they were already doing on Reddit to take down wrongthink subs. AHS are known to infiltrate and plant the most disgusting porn on subreddits they want to take down in order to create an excuse for censoring those subreddits.

      [–]Fetus_inhaler 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Ah yes, because pornography will change people’s minds.

      [–]Dr_Bukkake 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Like what the fuck, they won they got their little safe space on Reddit why can’t they just be content to stay there? It’s fucking simple, if you see a sub you don’t like just block it why do they have to try to bully everyone they don’t like?

      [–]RightousBob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Stay strong. The psy op known as reddit is failing and worthwhile alternatives like Saidit will prosper.

      [–]3rdFuckingAccount 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      The feds use this technique. Its called "TOPIC DILUTION"