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Seems contradictory to me...

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[–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Removing for rule 2. This would be better suited for s/GenderCritical, s/GenderCriticalGuys, or s/ThereAreTwoGenders

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 32 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

How about instead of respecting "gender identity" we treat everyone equally? There is this enormous elephant in the room that no one wants to see. You get treated based on what you look like. Ugly woman gets treated differently than pretty woman, fat woman gets treated differently than thin woman, old woman gets treated differently than young woman. Confident, assertive woman gets treated differently than woman who displays insecure body language. Woman dressed in head-to-toe Chanel gets treated differently than woman dressed head to toe in smelly rags. We already know how differently different race/religion women get treated, and of course, how differently men/women get treated, and how differently healthy/disabled people get treated. There are millions of factors that go into how someone treats you.

Our society has programmed us to notice all these tiny details and create a formula to treat everyone differently based on these millions of different combinations of factors. Not only that, different people have different formulas. A KKK member, a racist Asian woman, an ANtifa person, a woke fuck, they all have different formulas on how to treat you based on what you look like and who you are. There are billions of people and billions of formulas.

Insisting that you are potato-gender is not going to exempt you from this. At worst, the formula is going to cause people to treat you even worse than they are already treating you: Walking on eggshells in front of you to avoid drama and danger, and avoiding you in general and categorizing you as mentally unstable.

[–]censorshipment 4 insightful - 10 fun4 insightful - 9 fun5 insightful - 10 fun -  (2 children)

Curious: do you support everyone being mistreated "equally"? I honestly don't want to live in an utopian society where no one is prejudice/bias. That's what TRAs want in a sexual way, for everyone to be "pansexual" and date anyone. No sexual/"genital" preferences. No one wanting a big beautiful big or a perfect beautiful pussy. They want us to believe all genitals are beautiful which is simply not true. I saw a small uncircumsized dick that looked like a fat worm. 🤣 I love seeing women "dick-shame" men. I'd really miss that happening if the world became a utopia.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's impossible anyway. Even on the internet where we can't see what anyone looks like, people get treated differently based on what they say and how they present themselves. Our brains are able to create a formula on how to treat someone just based on some words on a screen.

I don't want anyone to be mistreated at all. What I would like is for everyone to treat everyone else with respect and open-mindedness, but it's a two way street. We can't be treating someone who wants us to suck their girl dick with any sort of respect, they have already shown that they are not capable of being respectful or willing to be part of a healthy society.

Prejudice/bias is extremely necessary because that's one of the best way for us women to protect ourselves. If sheep were to say 'We can't judge this one wolf based on the wolf stereotypes, maybe he's a nice wolf who won't eat us' they'd be fucked.

It was a stupid question that I asked, because it's impossible to treat people equally. Parents aren't even capable of treating their own children equally. I think if people want to be treated a certain way they can't cry and whine about it, instead, they have to become like an actor and get the right costume, appearance, behavior, etc and become the character that gets that treatment. Unfortunately, no matter how much Trans try to do this, they will never pass as the opposite sex. An old woman can't pass as 15, a fat woman can't pass as thin, etc etc.

As a society, it would be nice for us to find a middle ground where everyone can be treated with kindness and dignity, but the trans will always make it about themselves so I don't know what to do. I just hide in my house really.

About peen-shaming. I'm not on Twitter, but I read that trans creeps were sending JK Rowling dick pics in the comments section of the children's drawing contest that was part of the Ickabog promotion, and she was rating the dicks based on appearance, LOL

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's horrible to dick shame men unless they send unwanted dickpics than its all systems go for total verbal annihilation.

Also FYI circumcising penis might be normal in the US but in most of Europe this is seen as insane and is only done if you are Jewish or Muslim or you have a medical condition.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 20 insightful - 13 fun20 insightful - 12 fun21 insightful - 13 fun -  (2 children)

I like how the trans people still don't pass even in illustration.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Ohmygod you're right. It's immediately clockable even in drawings...

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imo they don't even pass online even if all you see are their anime or pivcrew avatars. Girls still use the typically girly language and have this typical girly attitude despite them coming out as non-binary, lol.

[–]motss-pb 18 insightful - 6 fun18 insightful - 5 fun19 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

"Destroy Gender Roles"

Oh my head hurts. Your flag is pink and baby blue for chrissakes!

The stripes at the top and bottom are light blue, the traditional color for baby boys. The stripes next to them are pink, the traditional color for baby girls. -Monica Helms (trans flag creator)

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I always thought the pink and blue trans flag perfectly encapsulates their simplistic and stereotypical view of what it means to be a "woman" or a "man".

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And the pastel colors have always just looked bad imo. Before I ever even formed an opinion on the trans comminity and current movement, the flag always just looked washed out to me. The only thing the flag does right is that it is symmetrical, so no viewing angle will be incorrect.

[–]hetisachoice 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is this individual related to Jesse Helms?

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, THIS! This all day! One of my key objections to transgenderism actually: its proponents are ostensibly liberals/progressives who DISDAIN those awful, retrograde, men-run-the-world-women-stay-at-home gender roles... and yet they insist that "gender identity" is modern, liberating, and totes different! (somehow). Without ever being able to explain the distinction! OR (even more astonishingly) any expectation that they need to! How has everybody failed to notice that this discredits the whole stupid idea???

From what I can tell, "gender identity" is just gender roles that, rather than being based on your sex, are based on your fee-fees. Which I guess makes people think it's totally NEW! & IMPROVED! (cuz, hey, now it's a choice!)... except of course it's still the same old pink-is-for-girls/blue-is-for-boys bullshit as ever, doesn't actually replace the sex-based kind (since those automatically kick in as soon as people perceive which you are), and indeed serves to reinforce the baaad ol' traditional ones by keeping the whole concept of male/female stereotypes alive. Especially since, in order for trans to have their precious "gender identity", gender roles for the REST of us are a must! Without everybody else conforming to "dress = woman", how can genderspeshul-guys signal that they're a LAY-DEE, instead of just... a dude in a dress?

Well, either way, my reaction can be summed up (in cod-Yiddish) as: gender... schmender.

[–]DollMeat-eating Vagitarian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transsexualism is logically incoherent. This is why they had to abolish this term and use Transgenderism instead. Not only is it impossible to "transition" ones sex, but transsexualism denotes a lack of necessary attributes required to be X-sex. If X-sex lacks necessary attributes, it does not contain the material necessary to be X-sex. Transgenderism states that "gender is fluid and can be changed".

The is inconsistent with the sex essentialist claims of transsexualism, hence, why they had to choose one of the other. Either gender is "not fluid" and "fixed" only 'two sexes' can exist - thus transsexualism that augments themselves to adhere as closely as possible to the appropriate sex or gender is "fluid" and not fixed, thus no sex essentialism. But, if this were the case, a transition would not be required in the first place.

There is no interesting difference between "gender fluid" and "transgenderism", and the existence of these two also implies that Transsexualism does not exist. Which is false. The ACTUAL dysmorphic sex essentialist transsexuals have been silenced under the guise of faux "transgenderism". The correct term would be "Transsexualism" not transgenderism, but acknowledging that invalides all these unicorns, and in fact appeals directly to the facts. The facts that body idealism and genital subjectivism is conceptionally and logically incoherent and contradictory all across the board, and this fact makes a direct challenge realness of 'trans identity' at all. A direct appeal to a mind-based issue; not a physical one, and to acknowledge the realness of Transsexualism means also appealing to the fact it is so riddled with logical error and a host of inconsistencies, it is easier to just say, "whatever works works", and "whatever you feel like, sex does not exist" hence we are all unicorns while still nitpicking off sex essentialist viewpoints to ignore the reality of situation.

Transsexualism and transgenderism cannot coexist at the same time and both be logically consistent, because Transsexualism makes a direct appeal to sex essentialism while attempting to abolish it. These contradictions they attempted to avoid with "Transgenderism" but still shows as contradictory in action, because only transsexualism has the strongest argument, if any at all.

Transgenderism also challenges "Agenderism". If Agenderism and "gender neutral" exists, then transgenderism is incoherent and does not exist.

There is also no meaningful distinction between gender fluidity and "transgenderism and they like it this way in this hocus pocus of genital subjectivism.

P1: All males and females must contain all the necessary biological attributes to be 'male' and female'.

P2: All 'males' and 'females' contain the necessary biological attributes needed "to be" 'male' and female'.

P3: A male that lacks necessary attributes necessary for to be considered 'female' is not a female.

P4: A female that contains both necessary attributes of both 'female' and 'male' is neither male or female, but intersex. QED.

P1: "Transition" denotes passing of all necessary attributes from one to another.

P2: All necessary biological attributes are 'fixed' at birth.

P3: Biological attributes cannot be 'changed' without artificial intervention/frequent injections (i.e. lacks necessary attributes) or augmentation (mimicking), therefore static biological sex cannot 'change' if necessary attributes cannot transition.

P4: "Transsexualism" (and 'trans' - genderism) is therefore incoherent. QED.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They don't want to destroy gender roles, they just want to perpetuate them and live their sex fantasies in the real world...

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They couldn't survive in a society where it was socially acceptable for men to wear dresses and for women to walk around shirtless in board shorts.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It would make sense of gender identity wasn't based on gender roles. In the past gender identity refer to the gender role you conformed to or not. Now gender identity is some arbitrary shit no one understands and anything you can say about it cannot be even falsified aka "if I identify as a woman then I am a woman". It's a religious dogma.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As there is apprently some unclarity towards what the difference between "Gender role" and "Gender Identity" is, please let me repeat the explanation I've already given elsewhere on this sub (Note: I'm argueing from the truscum/transmed conception of transgender):

re: definition of "Gender Identity"

the Idea is, that the brain has essentially some conception of what sex the body is supposed to have in terms of hormone levels and physical sexed characteristics, which, for the vast majority of people (non-transgender people, called "cisgender") alligns with the sex of the body. Now, when it doesn't allign (which it does for transgender people), this incongurance of hormone levels and sexed characteristics causes a state of distress termed "gender dysphoria", which is remediated by artifically alligning the hormone levels and sexed characteristics of the physical body to the ones the body is "supposed to have" according to this conception.

(https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7aa2/gosh_could_you_imagine_grifters_invading_your_sub/)

Re: difference between "Gender Role" and "Gender Identity":

The transdgender people I have talked to have been very insistent on seperating gender role and gender identity. Essentially, it's the other way around to how you made it out. As in, gender identity is not based on gender role, but gender role (as well as defiance thereof) is based on gender identity. Gender identity itself in turn relates how the person in question feels about their physical sexed anatomy (e.g. trans women being distressed at their lack of breasts, masculine facial features, beard growth and presence of penis, trans men being distressed at their presence of breasts, lack of penis, etc. with this distress being called "gender dysphoria" ), completly independent of gender role/gender expression. The descriptions that put it down to gender role/gender expression are simply oversimplistic. Essentially, a person with female birth sex, that loves wearing typical feminine clothing, loves cutesy stuff and has stereotypical feminine hobbys would still be a valid trans men (FtM) if this person felt distress over their female anatomical features (equivalent for trans women, so a person with male birth sex that is into tradionally masculine things would still be a valid trans women if they felt distress over their male anatomical features).

( https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/79xl/lgb_refutation_of_tq_part_2_going_on_the_offense/ )

Re: differntiating between those two:

In terms of differentiating gender identity from gender role, there is a thought experiment that goes like this: imagine you are stuck on a island with no other people to interact with, and therefore no gendered expectations or roles. If you, in that situation, had the chance to irreversible change the sex of your body, would you do it? If the answer is yes, it is about gender identity and not role (since without a society there are no gender roles), if the answer is changed by the lack of a society with gender roles, it is about those gender roles.

( https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/79xl/lgb_refutation_of_tq_part_2_going_on_the_offense/ )