Am I wrong in thinking that when reality finally sets back in with this Trans ideology, I think the people who supported it should feel bad about themselves for it?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

This is something that I admit I think about every now and then, that eventually the trans ideology will finally burst and dismantle when we are dealing with a bunch of yesteryear's youth who foolishly went down the path of transitioning via HRT/Hormones and unnecessary surgeries and finally understand just how screwed up they made themselves by damaging their bodies and health to chase an unrealistic and unobtainable goal and how obviously we'll be looking back at this and wondering why the hell any one ever supported the barbaric practices that were a big part f the ideology.

The part where I feel a bit guilty of is thinking that the people who mindlessly supported this ideology and blindly validated their friends and/or family who were tricked into the trans cult to the point 0f taking the drugs and having the mutilations deserve to feel bad about themselves for ever supporting it. Like it doesn't sound very empathetic even though my exception to this are the people who were under the age of 18-21 since they are still in a sense, kids and genuinely didn't know any better and the adults in their life failed them (the ones who were blindly validating them that is). I just wonder if I'm the only one who wrestles with these thoughts of the future.

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[–]FlippyKing 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Should? yes. Will? No. There are so many rationalizations with the "firewall" at the end of it all being "I was just trying to be nice". We will be the big meanies in this now and forever even if they admit gc is right. They'll say "you weren't really right because you didn't have this new evidence that finally pushed reality through our thick skulls, you were just mean. We're enlightened and woke and keeping up with science. You're just mean."

[–]WildApples 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, and don't forget the age old diffusion of responsibility: "It's not my fault. I was just following the experts/authority figures." Your last line is particularly apt. I am sure they will say they were just following the science and that was the best science available at the time as evidenced by the adoption of gender ideology by nearly all mainstream media, including scientific outlets. Who are they to question "science"?

Aside from a few doctors and institutions who are especially zealous in profiting off the butchering of children, I do not think there will ever be a real reckoning. Heck, I am starting to worry that gender ideology is here to stay. Masses of detrans individuals speaking out about being pushed into the trans pipeline as children without the ability to give true consent is the only way I see this coming to an end.

[–]FlippyKing 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. This is why the word "scientism" exists. The idea of science has become authority in people's minds, even those who go into the sciences, the same way law has become authority in people's minds and especially those who go into the various law professions from police to lawyer. It is a way to avoid dialogue and admitting what is really unknown.

No one saying "TWAW" can say that honestly. At best they can say "I've heard TWAW", or they can point to someone else's authority to back it up. This is true of so many things. I don't say that to fall into the trap of "there is nothing WE can know", but to make the distinction between what I or any one person can know and what "we" as a society can know. We let bad ideas go with no proof too often. I just commented elsewhere on saidit with the idea that we often let mathematical models (or worse, thought experiment models) pass for science when they are just the hypothesis phase of science. They may be complicated, they may be a statement that no person could make because of all the variables and other factors worked into the model, but a model proves nothing ever.

It is like a model wearing a dress. Does the model prove the dress looks nice and a clothes buyer should buy it for their stores? No. In the same way we have to ask if the dress works on the model as it would for anyone else trying it on, we have to ask if the abstract modeling matches the real world, if the assumptions that went into the model are sufficient-- and we have to ask that before we even deal with how the model was made.

We, speaking generally, do not think scientifically and do not converse scientifically. Our manner of conversation is exploited, and our minds and our lives are manipulated, by scientism just as it is exploited by legalism. This is how I think the manufacturing of consent works. It is able to work because we are dealing with ideas at a great distance from ourselves. We might deal with a harmless cross-dresser in our community in ways that keep the person harmless and unharmed, but we as individuals can not really generalize a set of rules for either thinking about the cross-dresser or regulating how we treat or are treated by the generic cross-dresser. Instead we are manipulated into accepting generalized rules for both. This goes beyond just cross-dressers and beyond this issue. It is every "issue" that comes to us from afar: war, government budgets, education. It ruins everything we deal with up close, our neighbors and friends, what we can and can't do locally with our water or food supplies, and how we train the next generation and for what purpose.

All that said, the other thing this makes me think of is the game "Schlemiel" in Transactional Analysis.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ew the sad thing about what you said is that it's probably true that THIS is the mindset that they're gonna have when the trans bubble pops.

[–]FlippyKing 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not unique to them, and I think it goes beyond just these kinds of "group-think", or the way the masses are duped by sloganeering and social engineering.

Few people ever say 'Wow, you were right and I was wrong.' They might see it as they learned something new, or their views "evolved", or they might see it as very nature of the matter will have changed ('trans people used to be good when they were just trying to deal with dysphoria, but now there are too many pervs who have displaced the "good ones" and the whole thing is now unworkable' which I think is a variation on Ronald Reagan's "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me" when really he no longer needed a good union to represent him and was being paid to be anti-union, which in his day was the big division between the two parties in the US).

Trans issues are not the only major issue today where this sloganeering and group-think has manipulated the masses.

[–]bolla_top 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It will be like post-war Germany where the allies strangely couldn't find any NAZIs anywhere. Everyone was secretly against the NAZIs the whole time. Go figure.

The sad part is that it's not even really untrue. Most people really do have secret misgivings about the whole thing. I mean, the trans spaces on reddit are constantly full of plaintive posts about how a trans person overheard an "ally" deadnaming them, or how an ally slipped up and said "be glad you're not a real girl..." blah blah blah. Most people would rather fit in than have integrity though, and whatever powers that be are behind this whole farce have done an incredible job of convincing people that everyone except those horrible terfs just knows trans women are women and fully supports them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah unfortunately you're right... The herd mentality when it comes to this nonsense is super terrifying.

[–]eiyukabe 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I myself think there should be legal ramifications for many of them (like the doctors that lead children on a path of self mutilation). "feel bad about themselves" wouldn't even begin to set the ledger right.

[–]Challenge 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

They will just deny ever saying otherwise. Recall that trans ideology is utter gibberish; so whatever you quote as proof of past evil, they'll say it doesn't mean what you think it means.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah you're probably right and I hope some call them out on their hypocrisy.

[–]FlippyKing 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It will be at best a hollow victory. Be happy that you are on the correct side of an issue, not the correct side of a fight. Sheeple gonna sheep, no matter what you do. Telling them they were wrong will do nothing but make them defensive. Getting them to read Aristotle, Plato, or to just get a good grounding in logic and rhetoric might get somewhere.

[–]whateverneverpine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Maybe Dworkin instead of Aristotle or Plato.

[–]FlippyKing 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I suspect in this case that one would rather read Dworkin instead of Aristotle or Plato, as opposed to after, only if one would rather be happy for being on the correct side of a fight, not the correct side of an issue.

I see this as far more fundamental, at the levels of logic, literacy, and competency of one's mind. I think it's not about this fight, and the issue is more about a paradigm than either side. It's about what words mean, and about the folly of projecting someone else's inner life out upon the whole world. Just the simple fact that people have allowed themselves to be manipulated in that way means the problem is at the root of their thought processes.

I don't think them reading Dworkin would change anything about them, they'd either agree with her and think she would agree with them now (as if she'd grow into the liberal feminism she opposed as it grew to dominate everything, that she'd buy-in or lean-in), or they'd see her as angry and reactionary. Dworkin hurts me emotionally because assumptions I made long ago about the nature of (or what I thought were the natural) relationships between men and women were really ripped apart, and they've been replaced with nothing, so maybe I'm biased.

[–]SanityIsGC 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

** Just the simple fact that people have allowed themselves to be manipulated in that way means the problem is at the root of their thought processes.**

Absolutely spot on.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I too often think about how all this is going to pan out. Graham Linehan often talks about the die-hards, the Owen Jones types, who are fully invested and will never reject gender ideology.

The thing is, this ideology has been so successful precisely because so few understand what's going on. Once they do, they'll just nope out. They can plausibly state that they were misled into thinking they were doing the right thing.

We're unlikely to see a mass reckoning, but I'll settle for the mass hysteria ending.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah you're right. I suppose it's a bit too idealistic to think the world will have a big wake up call with this trans crap but as long as we can reverse free speech laws, have women get their spaces back, and have more information readily available that forewarns the reality of what these drugs (HRT) and unnecessary surgeries do to the body, that should be enough.

[–]WildApples 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I used to think that. But after multiple conversations with friends and family, I realized that nearly everyone I know has already majorly bought into gender ideology. They are not the extremists; they are just followers who want to be nice and progressive and therefore will not question trans ideology in the slightest. They have internalized it enough that it has become a question of personal identity. They are proud to be supporting the trans cause and think people who don't are bigoted.

[–]SanityIsGC 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They have internalized it enough that it has become a question of personal identity.

Illuminating observation.

[–]saiditting 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to think this was going to happen and one day NPR/CNN/NYTimes and the rest would all turn against gender ideology at once. I remember NPR interviewing Laci Green a few years ago and thinking the dam was just about to burst.

Now I'm not so sure and I think TPTB are promoting this ideology for reasons we are not fully aware of. It's not just about big pharma profits imho. The Chapelle drama and school board drama is demonstrating how ridicuously unpopular gender ideology is yet the MSM seems determined to keep the guilt-trip hustle going as long as possible.

But if I had to predict, odds are that 10 years from now most of the normies who support this will be embarrassed to admit they did.....kinda like being embarrassed to admit to using sketchy drugs or liking stupid bands in the past.