Don't worry about the Taliban ladies, just stop identifying as a woman

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[–]terf41percentjanny 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

the usa should've never pulled out to begin with, biden is completely responsible for this, and I have not voted democrat since 2016.

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Eh. The USA should have never been there for 20 years to begin with. I hate Biden and the democrats, but I still feel like he's being criticized too harshly for a long string of presidential mistakes. And that this would have happened regardless.

[–]terf41percentjanny 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I respectfully disagree, if the only thing keeping them from fucking around with girls and women, was the us being there, then I wouldn't have minded if we stayed there, like forever, if it meant this shit would happen. besides china wants this shit to happen, to undermine the usa.

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

The outcomes for the women and girls is tragic, I'll absolutely grant that. I just don't think it's realistic for the US to try to save everyone, cold as that may seem. Women and girls are suffering in countries all across the world - but I believe the only way to effect and keep real change is for it to come from within. China is a problem on multiple fronts, I don't know that Afghanistan is the most important one. But I understand where you're coming from, I don't really like choosing pragmatism when it comes to human suffering, I just don't see any lasting impact from any other course.

[–]KimiORabu 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The change you speak of can never come from within. Most of their population support women being oppressed like that. And when you give the power to Taliban, there's not much the rest of the population can do. Taliban don't hesitate to use whatever they have to crush the heads of those that get in their way. Everyone ends up shaking in fear. You underestimate the power of islamic groups. Perhaps you never experienced it - the true colors of islam. Or perhaps you did and happen to be one of those liberals that ignores the red flags for your political agenda.

Once an islamic group takes over a country, the country is doomed. Nothing can change it for the better, unless some outside country starts a war and takes over.

In the past 20 years, the only reason Taliban didn't dare intervene was because USA troops were in Afghanistan. With their withdrawal, it's game over.

I also don't see the point of comparing case to case. Just because women "suffer" in xyz country doesn't mean women should get over it in Afghanistan.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sounds like the Trans Cult. Once it gets into a country, you can't get rid of it. So, do you think it would be appropriate for some country to invade the US to solve this problem? I mean, they are indoctrinating children into the new religion and housing female inmates with males inmates among many other things, after all... If you don't think so, then tell me why is it okay for the US to invade other countries or overthrow foreign goverments under the excuse of human rights or whatever else?

[–]KimiORabu 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I do think a war with the US and other western countries can make the westerners focus on big issues, and stop the "trans" cult. It's because westerners have no big issues, only first world problems like "which comes first: the cereal or the milk?", that they started making up new imaginary problems like "these kids are trans, they want to pee in the other bathrooms, okay!!!111", "omg that's cultural appropriation1111", etc.

But I agree on one thing with you: Western countries are infected with the "trans" cult and don't care about western women, how can they care about non-western ones? They don't care.

My point was if there were a good country not infected with the "trans" cult, that cared about its own people, as well as the people of another country which is invaded by the islamic groups, the only way to stop the invasion is to arrive in the country with their own troops. Of course, without raping the girls and women that you mentioned USA troops supposedly did. The troops would stay there to protect the country from the islamic groups.

Sadly, there is no such good country. Every country is infected with at least one issue. So no change will happen in Afghanistan. Girls and women will be held back from education if they don't cover themselves from head to toe. They will be raped within marriage because islam does not recognize marital rape - marital rape is legal in muslim countries as a result. They will be seen as second class citizens with no worth. And so on.

The "trans" cult is dangerous. And Islam is more dangerous than the "trans" cult.

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nobody goes to war to liberate another country. That only happens in Hollywood movies. War is fought for power: gaining access to resources or a strategical position, distracting your own people with a foreign enemy, that sort of thing. No only the "freedom bringing" country you want don't exist, they could only bring more misery to the countries they are trying to "help". The path to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.

You talk about the US being a stabilizing force in Afghanistan when in fact they did a complety shitty "job" there. Not only they couldn't get rid of the threat of talibans, but the puppet goverment they put in place could not resist a single year against them. The US also trained, armed, and supported many of the Middle East warlords.

I disagree the Trans Cult is the result of the developed countries not having real problems. Every country has their own set of problems, yes, even well-offf countries like the US. Yes, the US has more well-off people who can worry about luxury beliefs like sex being a social construct. But just because the woke take offense at everythin, it doesn't mean there aren't real problems there like misogyny, racism, economic inequalities, a very profit-driven health care system, higher education being unbeliablely expensive and not worth what the students are paying for, etcetera. I do think the upper classes of the US have embraced identity politics presicely because they can pretend they care about "social justice" while keeping the status quo.

[–]KimiORabu 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nobody goes to war to liberate another country.

That's why humanity is disgusting.

No only the "freedom bringing" country you want don't exist

Pay attention to the "if". It was a hypothetical scenario in which there is a good country that fights to liberate another country. Yes, it doesn't exist. Humans are disgusting creatures, and only go to war when they are hungry for more resources.

they could only bring more misery to the countries they are trying to "help"

You never know until you try. It's possible it will actually get them out of the misery they would be in had the war not occurred.

The US also trained, armed, and supported many of the Middle East warlords.

Yet another useless history lesson on western countries ruining other countries with religion, as though what they did to Africa wasn't enough of a lesson.

I disagree the Trans Cult is the result of the developed countries not having real problems.

There aren't as many problems, and so they make up their own imaginary problems. It's not an either/or situation. Both your and my position can be valid.

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I noticed the "if". I can read pretty well, you know? I said what I said because even if such country existed I don't think bombing an foreign country and killing and maiming its people would be of any help. You're going to create more suffering and the locals are going to resent you along with whatever ideas you're trying to bring up. You also may be completely ignorant about their culture, which would make it near impossible to bring real social change. Any goverment that you put in place is likely to be impopular and viewed as the puppets they are. Once/if you decide to leave, there is a risk the country goes into a civil war. But it's very easy to fantasize about bringing war into a foreign country in order to "liberate" them when you don't have to worry about the consequences of a war. Honestly, it's so tiresome how Americans keep trying to justify their desires of conquest under the pretense of noble causes.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What do you see as the solution though? The US(or some other power) stays in the country for 10, 20, 100 years, propping up the government and enforcing a peace the people don't really care about themselves? I don't believe there was a good side here. The Afgan government and officials were doing some messed up and corrupt things too - but sure, it's true that they're slightly less reprehensible than the Taliban. If there's one thing I agree with Biden on, it's that you can't give people the will to fight for their country.

And I'm all for criticism of Islam. I think "liberals" and westerners are complete and utter morons for thinking it's just a 'cultural difference'. It is brutal to women and boys, and yes, when it takes over, the country is doomed. Afghanistan is doomed, sorry to say. Don't act like I'm ignorant of the reality of the situation just because I say: It's not our problem. It should never have been our problem. We (stupidly) gave the Afgan army every advantage and training, and this is STILL the end result. Absolutely nothing. Correction: Worse than nothing, because it's worse than when we started.

So again, what's the solution? What should be done that wasn't tried in the past 20 years, that would have somehow made a difference?

[–]KimiORabu 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only solution is humanity's extinction. At least 2,000 years of humanity brainwashing each other with religion, heterosexism, etc and it's still ongoing. I'd put an end to everyone else, and then myself, until nothing is left, if I were given access to the bombs. If there were a button that put an end to everyone and everything, that would be the ideal.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, there's no solution. Forgive me if I'd rather take what I can get from my small community of mostly decent people and my cats and dog.

[–]Anonimouse 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pragmatic is helping refugees get out of that place/settle somewhere safe rather than using force to keep it vaguely safe.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your gorvenment don't give a damn about Amercian women, why would they care about foreing women and girls? No one was thinking on saving anyone when the US invaded Afghanistan. That is just pure propaganda. And how exactly American soldiers doing also their own bombing, loothing, killing and raping there is going to help Afghan girls and women?

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US has consistently destabilised countries that made strides in being more secular and that could push back against the Taliban, for its own political gain (like Syria and Libya). They've given money to militant religiously-motivated rebels that even they admitted weren't "ideologically pure in the way US would've wanted". One of their biggest allies is Saudi Arabia. Helping women has never been their goal, it was an accidental side-effect.

[–]SexualityCritical 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Is this sub supporting imperialism? I'm not trying to be a fragile, generic leftist, but this is just absurd.

The US literally fought for twenty years. The Taliban was always winning. It was just a matter of time until Afghanistan was captured by the Taliban government. The American intervention did nothing except cost US taxpayers billions of dollars, killed hundreds of thousands of people, and was aware that the war was never supposed to end, which is why the US intentionally drew it out, to keep it going for as long as possible, so that capitalist companies could continue to profit off of it.

[–]terf41percentjanny 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do you honestly think that the left really gives two shits about actual women to begin with? I mean really when people say capitalism like its a dirty word, it makes it seem like the fact I got out myself out of poverty through hard work a bad thing. Sure yes some companies can profit off war, but at the end of the day thats what companies do make a profit. Granted capitalism isn't fucking perfect, no system is, but I'd sooner take capitalism then what the left has been proposing for years. While the republicans cling on to a dream that will never come back to fruition, the left only cares about problems so long as it gives them political power; why do you think we have tims being allowed to be housed in female prisons in the first place? the left, why were violent males larping as female automatically released into the public despite proving how fucking violent they are on video? the left. if the lefts wants it they can fucking burn your house, destroy your crops, and fuck your wife, and you can't do shit because its only property. yes you may work for years for such property, save up, but have it destroyed. the point I don't care if one side offers imperialism through capitalism, currently the other alternatives as so fucking bad for women, that I am willing overlook shortcomings for I perceive to best outcome. Left wants to take my guns, right wants me to keep them, left wants to put men in women's only spaces, right thinks that's absurd, left wants to censor my speech, right is pissed off at facebook/twitter/ etc. for censorship. you get what am saying here? I don't think leftist thinking works anymore, atleast for womens rights, in the usa.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Democrats are not anticapitalists, but they are pro-capitalists. The only reason why Democrats are considered left is because in the US there are only two parties that matter, but they would be considered right-wing in several other countries. Democrats are also as much a bunch of imperialist warmongers as the Republicans. If anyone think this is a overstatement, tell me when the last time an American goverment of either party was not involved in starting a new war or continuing an old one, or helping to overthrough a foreign goeverment they didn't like. Joe Biden is withdrawing from Afghanistan now; he also voted for both the Afghanistan and the Irak war at the early 2000's.

[–]terf41percentjanny 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't even take anyone who says ant/pro capitalist seriously, normally because the people I hear it from irl are the type that never had to to struggle as a poor person. the ones not to be seriously effected by the hierarchy of needs; yes countries go to war over resources, but muirica isn't any worse than any other of the countries that have done this shit. I sure as hell am happy that not I am living in a country that allows me to own guns, have some free speech, and not be sold or traded for camels. so what if america wants to go full imperialist? china is trying to get a piece, russia we dont know other than spying. America isn't the only country to exist to war over resources, and it probably won't be the last. if I remember correctly the uk was oil happy way before 9/11, like a century before. the uk at one point had the biggest imperial reputation, but some how america lmao decided to use 9/11 as an excuse wage war, make it imperial war mongering?

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, the US is not the only country with imperialist interest nowadays and, of course, there were plenty of other empires through history. Though, I don't know why you're bringing this up since, first, I never said the US was the only warmongering state and, second, saying "other guys did/do those awful things, too, you know?" is a very weak defense. I'm not surprised you don't care whatever the US do abroad. Why should you? Americans can sleep well at night certain that they would never have to worry over a more powerful country invading them, overthrowing their goverment or subjecting them to an economic blockade. The few countries that could fight in equal terms against the US are not interested to risk a nuclear war and, thus, prefer indirect ways of fighting.

I don't know why you think American imperialism started after 9/11. Nope, the US have got imperialistic tendencies from the very beggining. They have been involved in multiple wars since their country creation and it had been a long while since the last time a war was fought in American soil. They also have been interfered in other countries' affairs for a long while. They also have a lot of militar bases abroad. The US justify their many wars saying they're bringing democracy and freedom to the people while they have supported many authoritarian regimens and overthrowed several democratic goverments they didn't like. The US talks about human rights when they themselves have commited many human right violations.

American imperialism

List of wars involving the United States

List of United States military bases

United States war crimes

Foreign interventions by the United States

United States involvement in regime change

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America

Operation Condor

United States and state-sponsored terrorism

Human rights violations by the CIA