Trans Rights Are Not Like Gay Rights! Trans is NOT the New Gay

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[–]VioletRemi 30 insightful - 5 fun30 insightful - 4 fun31 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

It is complete BS. "Transbians" are attacking lesbians and banning our spaces for decades now. Nice victim blaming here. Is Magdalen Burns guilty for letting them in as well? Are you blaming rape victims too?

And a lot of people are thinking that this issue is because of feminism. Is it too? Should we now blame GC too on it?

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you for saying this. This shit is why I haven't joined GC and still am not interested in doing so, too many people here are happy to just bash LGB people. I didn't ask to have my demographic invaded by a bunch of autogynephilic men, the idiots at Stonewall and GLAAD decided that after the Pritzkers and other billionaires pumped money into the transgender medical industry.

[–]VioletRemi 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, there aren't that many homophobes on GC side, but some that there are - are pretty annoying. And ones who blame us in everything should be called out as well. Most people just do not know and believing TRA propaganda (like so many GC are thinking that TRA are saying truth about intersex), because that is the only version they are seeing. And every other version is banned in media, so without calling out or correcting people - no one will know that there is different side. Intersex people all over Twitter running around and trying to speak against BS to both sides, most GC people listening, some don't, most TRA people not listening, but some are. So I am still in GC spaces, even when they are becoming anti-LGB, and if something wrong stated - trying to call it out and discuss.

In general Radical feminists are often more helping to lesbians, than gay men or bisexual women, but still need to be called out sometimes.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So I am still in GC spaces, even when they are becoming anti-LGB, and if something wrong stated - trying to call it out and discuss.

I get that and I have a ton of respect for you for doing it. I would consider doing something similar, but I have only so much energy to spare and right now I'd rather not.

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

This thread is not making GC look good on either end, both for the blame of individual LGB people and what apparently is an attempt to defend LGBT orgs who sold out LGB people for $$$. I’m suddenly reminded why I could not get into Ovarit and why I don’t post as much here anymore.

[–]DifferentAirGC 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This shit is why I haven't joined GC and still am not interested in doing so, too many people here are happy to just bash LGB people

In my experience, GC people on old subreddit, tumblr and ovarit rarely say these things. I usually see this argument in reddit's TumblrInAction, which is not a feminist site at all.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair point, I didn't gave much experience on the old GC (or on tumblr GC) and this does actually remind me a lot of TumblrInAction-- which I'm mixed on as well.

Also to be fair, I am sure there will be at least a few people wandering in from the rest of saidit which is often pretty extreme.

[–]Finnegan7921 5 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 8 fun -  (5 children)

How am I victim blaming ? Did I miss the initial massive resistance to the T's joining the LGB movement ? I don't think I did. The fact is that they were welcomed by activists, their cause was bonded to the overall struggle for the rights of non-hetero people and they've taken the movement over, pretty much in plain sight as they became more and more belligerent and increasingly absurd in their demands, as the trans logic became ever more twisted, the goalposts of what it meant to be a woman were moved time and time again until now it is just something anybody can feel or not, however they wake up that day, words became meaningless, science was dismissed as bullshit while feelings became paramount, yet there was no large drive to separate them from the LGB's who are grounded in reality, generally aren't as confrontational and demanding and don't usually tell people who disagree with them that they're committing LITERAL VIOLENCE with words on the internet. Plenty of LGB activists are still all aboard the T train, some are not, but to say they bear no blame for what has transpired is ridiculous.

[–]MarkTwainiac 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Did I miss the initial massive resistance to the T's joining the LGB movement ?

Yes, you clearly did. Amongst lesbians in the US and elsewhere, there was massive resistance to the Ts joining starting in the 70s, when AGP men first started pushing to be let into lesbian spaces and to be considered lesbians themselves. Look at the controversy that happened over letting a TIM be part of Olivia Records in the early 70s. And look at what happened to Michfest. Look also at the work and personal experience of lesbian feminists who very loudly and publicly sounded the alarm about the Ts such as Janice Raymond, who published "The Transsexual Empire" in 1979, Mary Daly, Sheila Jeffreys, and Cathy Brennan.

Amongst gay men too there was strong resistance to letting the Ts, even the homosexual ones, play a major role in gay rights. During the AIDS crisis of the 80s, there were lots of gay guys who expressed disdain and even revulsion for their transvestite brothers. Guys who did drag were seen as one thing, guys who lived as transvestites were seen as entirely another.

I know quite a number of gay men who were active in gay rights in the 70s and involved in groups like ACT UP during the AIDS crisis of the 80s who felt embarrassed by and even contemptuous of gay transvestites and did not want to align themselves with them - they saw TVs as "other" and as bad for the movement, on par with the gay pedophiles of NAMBLA and PIE.

After the documentary "Paris Is Burning" came out in the early 90s, many of these men said their eyes and hearts were opened a bit, and they began reassessing their revulsion and rejecting attitudes towards these other men. However, many of these gay men still were adamant that giving transvestites "a place at the table" was "problematic" for gay rights for a number of reasons.

[–]VioletRemi 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you.

[–]MarkTwainiac 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad to be of service. I really hate all this erasure and revising of history that's being done by parties on all sides these days.

[–]VioletRemi 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How? Well, you are even in this post saying that we somehow should have been stopping them from closing our spaces and trying to coerce into raping us. That we somehow should overpower them taking our spots and attacking us. We wer espeaking against them. And what? Anyone listened? Anyone is listening lesbians right now too? We are screaming, but all our voices are silenced. On Pride we were not given a word when we tried to say about this issue, and each year less and less voice we had in any LGBT event or organisation. Stonewall (and GLAAD) just all focused on Transes, ignoring lesbians (and most gay men too, but not all of them). No one is just listening, - like you too is refusing to listen, and ready to throw us under the train, because somehow "we deserved it" and we are "reaping what we sown". How is that not a victim blaming?

Even books were published by lesbians and gays about T attacks on LGB and on women. But no one listened.

So if there is someone to blame on "letting T in", then it is people who refused to listen to us then and refusing to listen to us now. We not "let them in", you did by not helping us and not listening us.

Insanity. Feminism on helping women, but "lesbians should be raped by TW as we deserved it, as lesbians created TW and let then in movement"! Those damn lesbian activists, who love sleeping with men and promoted TW. All their fault. Suuure.

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Individual lesbians are not to blame for the activists, nor for the LGBT movement as a whole, and certainly no individual is to blame for being sexually assaulted. But I don't think that was the point. There is some truth to the idea that LGBT organizations abandoned the LGB side without much pushback. You can talk about lesbians objecting to it, but I can remember back in 2011 being lectured by lesbians and gay men for even asking questions about the T's. Everyday people, not activists. There's also some truth to feminists abandoning their commitment to women(at least libfems) in favor of the men in dresses. Of course they're not solely responsible, there was a movement of elites pushing this narrative for decades before it took off. But often the way power is transferred to lunatics is for good people not to say anything. A lot of people, including many who were LGB, bought into the 'trans are the most oppressed victims of us all' narrative.