About the idea that playing along with trans fantasies is the polite thing to do

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GenderCritical

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[–]HarlanRogers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The issue I find is that it's a kafkatrap for people who generally intend to be civil to others, such as myself, and that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't like conflict or hurting others, but I also don't like being wrong. So if I were to tell a trans person that I think their perceptions of themselves are not based in ontological truth and are ultimately delusional, I'm worried I'll be branded a horrible person or I'll hurt them enough to make them self-harm. It's impossible to agree to disagree on this issue because it's a fundamental part of how they view themselves. And the militant mindset TRA's have encouraged each other to adopt makes it even worse.

So for the sake of avoiding needless arguments or being outcast from groups, I ultimately do identify trans people by their pronouns. I totally agree that enabling the warped perception of self is only hurting them in the long run, but I'd like to avoid getting into arguments about this in apolitical contexts, particularly in public. I've got to look out for myself rather than break myself trying to convince every trans person that they're wrong about themselves.

[–]EveSerpent 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They already know they’re wrong about themselves. That’s why they’re so very desperate to have everyone else in the world validate their delusions by pretending along with them. They can’t even convince themselves.

[–]HarlanRogers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think they, or at least some portion of the population, do sincerely believe these things though. That's one of the reasons they're so militant about it, they're convinced they're right.

[–]EveSerpent 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have to disagree. If anyone truly believed a TIM was a woman, then his concerns and interests would be treated as actual women’s are: ignored, dismissed, mocked. Not treated as though they are the words of a god that must be obeyed, like they are now.

What if women had actually wanted integrated public bathrooms for some crazy reason? Wouldn’t happen. Instead we are trying to fight against this, and we—the absolute majority over TIMs, with real safety concerns—are shot down.

No woman is making an effort to have grown men share changing rooms with their 10 year old daughters. TIMs are the ones championing this and winning.

ETC. ETC. ETC. Because everyone knows they’re men and so they are pandered to. TIFs are largely ignored by everyone because who cares, they’re women.

I believe they’re all only militant about it due to their narcissism and misogyny. Nothing more.

[–]MezozoicGay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If anyone truly believed a TIM was a woman, then his concerns and interests would be treated as actual women’s are: ignored, dismissed, mocked. Not treated as though they are the words of a god that must be obeyed, like they are now.

Just like in majority of discussions, issues and laws - transmen are ignored, and instead narrative is shifted to transwomen, even if it started about transmen. And are mentioned only when they can be used as "gotcha!".

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's probably a flexibility around do they/don't they believe, similar to whether people really believe in god - it's not as simple as whether they believe in the coffee table, but some people have a level of commitment to their way of seeing the world that makes their understanding of their sex deeply important and seemingly true. It's not a rational belief, they think they are "women" but also trans women when that is more important, but it's still something deeply held and central to their lives...

[–]ColoredTwice 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When someone misgendering me, I am not jumping on them and not throwing tantrums, even thought it hurts sometimes (as people using "you are not even fully woman" as argument against me sometimes, just because I am intersex). I know I am woman, my womanhood does not rely on someone else's perception of me. If they can be woman only when everyone around is forced to mention to them all the time that they are women - then sorry, but the king is naked.

[–]ColoredTwice 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love that here is no downvotes.

People disagree - and putting a statement why, answering. Other people don't afraid to disagree either. On Reddit (or Ovarit to some extent) such answers would be just downvoted without any answer given.

[–]Finnegan7921 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And there lies the problem with "wordcrimes" being reason enough to get someone fired, etc. Obviousslurs are no good, and valid reason to give someone the boot from a job. Calling the guy a "tranny" with the pejorative connotations that word brings is no good and people shouldn't do that in a workplace. Same with the N word, other racial slurs, guys calling women bitches, gay slurs etc. Workers shouldn't have to deal with that crap at work. In the rest of the public realm, things become more gray area for me, tbh. Freedom of speech is what it is, and this idea that you always have to watch what you say, yet some people don't due to their identity getting a free pass (looking at you, Joy Reid, Jemele Hill, etc. who claim that every white person is racist and still have high profile media jobs) is total bullshit. Engaging in a debate and respectfully disagreeing is never enough, imo to get someone canned or to whip up the woke mob online, but they do it b/c they know their arguments have no merit whatsoever and this is how they silence people. It will only get worse in the next 4 years. It will take someone with guts of titanium to take a real stand against this insanity.