"Vanilla shame" - yet another byproduct of liberal feminism?

submitted by vitunrotta from self.GenderCritical

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[–]TalkToTheVoid 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (62 children)

I almost completely agree with you. I'm not super sure where I've landed on other people doing consensual things in privacy.

What I know I'm super sure about is that shaming anyone for "vanilla" sex is the worst.

Very recently, a friend of mine was shamed by a so called feminist man she met on Tinder, using exactly this word - "vanilla". She said she hasn't tried anal sex and is also not interested in it, and he dismissively called her vanilla. She wasn't as incensed as I was about it, but after we'd discussed it a bit, she did think it warranted some push back. So she told him it isn't cool to shame her for her sex-related boundaries, and he said he "wasn't judging". Really? Why would you feel the need to call a prospective sex-partner boring, if not to judge them as a sex-partner? She then asked him if HE would want to be anally penetrated, since as a man he's got a prostate and will feel it more, and suddenly he was all defensive and "I'm vanilla too". Except he called only her vanilla to begin with when they were discussing sex, and admitted to his own vanillaness only after she pushed back the next time they talked.

It was so obvious he'd never even considered the question. As a straight-man he was so sure he should get to put his penis anywhere he wants to, and a woman who disagrees is being a boring stick in the mud. But his anus is obviously not in play.

This type of man uses "feminist" like a weapon to disarm women. I'm so mad even thinking about him again.

[–]moody_ape 23 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 5 fun -  (24 children)

they always assume the penetrated person in anal is going to be the woman. and they expect women to be penetrated in every orifice. 100% of my sexual partners asked for anal sex, including the one who took my virginity. after a having sex with me a few times, there he was "would you do anal sex?". and don't come say "oh are you seriously complaining that the guys politely ask you for anal? they are doing nothing wrong!" well, if they are asking, that's because they expect it. otherwise, they wouldn't even try. besides, i always said no and they always questioned "but why? but many women like it! but i'll be careful not to hurt you! but it can be relly good for you too! but but but!"

i really wish men were the ones to be penetrated in sex everytime because i hate being so vulnerable for the mere possibility or maybe who knows having something that resembles an orgasm.

my philosophy now is: masturbation now, masturbation tomorrow, masturbation forever.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Ditto. The question inevitably pops up sooner rather than later, and if you say no, you're a vanilla prude. But my lord if you were to suggest to a guy if you may kindly thrust this 30cm dildo up their butt... We all know how they'd react to that.

Also, as pointed by u/Finnegan7921 "feminist men" are largely just a bunch of pseudointellectual twats who are here to explain feminism for you. (The grace! The nobility! Let us all bow down in front of their unmatched genius!)

I used to date a self-proclaimed "feminist man", who also happened to anally rape me (as a revenge for a previous disagreement). He would also condescendingly teach what the book Madame Bovary was about - to my feminist friend who had a PhD in literature. Truly a gift for women, this bloke. What a self-absorbed, egotistic ballsack of a human that guy is. Blergh.

[–]moody_ape 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i'm really sorry for the violence he commited against you. i despise such beings. and i hate nature for making males and females dimorphic to our disadvantage. i wish i was a parying mantis so i could be the strongest.

it makes me so angry to know i've wasted my time with pieces of shit. one guy had the guts to say i was too feminist and that the things i said were anti-feminist. and i know most women fall for him. he's good looking, charming and a fucking LIAR. and i can't save women from him. he's out there having fun and taking advantage of women who are naive to his manipulative tactics, like i was in the past.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any guy who thinks the words "too feminist" is showing a giant red flag. I'm sorry you had to suffer him, and he'll likely continue to be a jerk to the women he meets. It really sucks how so many men abuse their physical and societal advantages :(

[–]TalkToTheVoid 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL. This man seemed exactly like you describe. Unfortunately, my friend continued to see him for a bit though it was all super casual. She was seeing another guy with the same name "X" so we used to refer to this one as "Woke X" because he made such a show of his wokeness, and after a point it was obvious he thinks he's suuuuuch a gift to womenkind because he's a "feminist"!

[–]TalkToTheVoid 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't say it in my previous reply. I realized it after I saw another reply. I'm sorry you had to go through such violence at the hands of a man you probably trusted.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. Yes, he was truly a piece of shit. He did a lot more damage than that - stuff I am dealing with still today.

This guy is very well respected in his circles and is basically considered uomo universale. It makes my blood boil that so many people consider him as some sort of a demigod, when in reality he is a conceited, uppity rapist.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 13 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

Hah, I just had a thought. Every time a dude asks for anal sex, the woman should enthusiastically agree and then bring out a dildo and ask him to turn around. Let's see how they like that!

[–]moody_ape 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

now that is my kink

[–]vitunrotta[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

YES. 💯

[–]our_team_is_winning 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

It's tempting to say "you know what gets me off? When a guy lets me bite his dick so hard it draws blood. It just leaves LITTLE scabs. They'll heal. Come on! Don't you LOVE me???"

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I had one guy in a friend group low key feel me out about a beej - as if that's a compromise to not wanting anything to do with him as a romantic partner, and I said, hm, never done one before. It's like eating a cob of corn, right? And then pantomimed doing that.

He got the hint. Anyway, your comment reminded me of that!

[–]TalkToTheVoid 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

"if they are asking, that's because they expect it" Exactly. They aren't asking thinking you'll enjoy it. They're asking thinking they'll enjoy it, and you're supposed to help them have a good time.

I can understand a man having curiosity, and perhaps he can share he's curious about this activity, not put a woman in the spot of saying yes or no.

They should try having some fucking empathy and consider whether they'd like to be on the receiving end of what they're asking. Nope. A man will "ask", and she then has to defend why she is not on-board with that.

[–]Fuzz 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

I had a female friend complain to me that sex with her boyfriend was always painful/uncomfortable (for her, obviously), but he had suggested they try anal sex and she was hoping that would be better. It's like, yeah, what a GREAT IDEA, he can't manage to interact with your vagina without hurting you, but you want to trust him with your anus? Thankfully she broke up with him not too long after.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

And it sounds her boyfriend didn't care that while he was enjoying himself, she was suffering. Smh.

I don't get such men. Isn't their sexual experience diminished by seeing their partner not enjoy the activity? On the one hand it seems like it's brag-worthy for men to be great at sex and give women orgasms, and on the other hand women are told it's normal for them to experience pain during sex and men keep going even when their partner is in pain.

I read somewhere once that a man suggested anal sex to his partner because they didn't have a condom. Like that is the only alternative. Nothing must get in the way of the male orgasm.

[–]moody_ape 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

i think they take pleasure exactly from their partners pain. women are taught to have pleasure from the pleasure we give, but men aren't taught the same. and porn is all about dick hurting women in various ways. besides, if it hurts, it's because is oooh so big! the bigger the better, the bigger the more male, the bigger the more powerful or whatever. i HATE big dicks. honestly, dicks are the least fun part of sex. everything else is more exciting to me than dicks.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

The sea change that's occurred is so sad & damaging. Of course, there have always been men who are sexual sadists and dickheads who get off on their female partners' pain. But when I was growing up (born mid-1950s), many/most teen boys & men took pride in being able to bring teen girls/women to orgasm, and when I was a younger teenager buys often did so by fingering us during make-out sessions with no demand or expectation that we girls reciprocate. (I was making out with boys who got me off for years before I was asked to consider or touch a dick.) And when boys/men were in love, they often placed more emphasis on their female partners' pleasure than on their own:

Roxy Music's "To Turn You On" from 1982: https://youtu.be/P136AgVU5FQ

Also, back then boys & men wanted their love interests to be happy overall:

Bobby Vinton's "Take Good Care of My Baby" from 1961 https://youtu.be/awNqLO6auQA

And instead of pressuring girls & women into anal sex, once upon a time boys & young men were happy just to dance with us and hold our hands:

https://youtu.be/B7X1oUfa8uE

https://youtu.be/jenWdylTtzs

And if they got to make out with a girl, they were over the moon: https://youtu.be/TSpiwK5fig0

[–]moody_ape 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I was making out with boys who got me off for years before I was asked to consider or touch a dick

the amount of envy i'm feeling now... i hope you don't take offense on that hahahah. that was way healthier than what we have today. i wish my experience had been like that. the second guy i kissed already wanted sex. i was in my early 20s, but i was very inexperienced. i didn't even know how to kiss properly and there i was trying to give a blowjob. i feel sorry for that young woman... i wish i could go back in time and stop her. teach her everything i know today.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't take offense at all! Looking back on my experiences compared to what's going on today, I'm amazed at how much sexual pleasure boys gave me back then by putting their hands down my pants & fingering me to orgasm whilst they never grabbed my own hand & put it on their dicks or expected me to have PIV or give them blow jobs or anything else... Back then, it was a given that a girl of 13, 14, 15 even 16 would want to remain a virgin, and that for a guy to expect/demand a girl of that age to give a hand job or blow job was outré & "too much to ask." Back then teen guys complained of "blue balls" all the time, but they accepted having/getting them as just their fate.

When I reached my mid-50s, I went through a "retrosexual" period when I became very curious about old BFs from my youth, & ended up getting in touch with a number of them. One of the reasons was that I wanted to ask about their experiences of what happened between us, to apologize for my sexual selfishness and cluelessness about their sexual needs, & to find out what they had done to get sexual release back then. They all were glad to hear from me, & gracefully (& usually with laughter) accepted my apologies, but they also said they had been very happy - thrilled, in fact - by/with our makeout, feeling-up, fingering & humping sessions - & after & during them they took care of their own sexual needs the way they had been doing since they had begunn puberty, by going into the loo to beat off or "work one out." I was nearly 17 when I first had PIV, and although in the ensuing decade I had an active sex life with a large number of male partners (I'm not promiscuous, really, it was just the 1970s, LOL) hardly any guys I was with with expected or asked for things like hand jobs, blow jobs or 69... But they all loved & wanted to do cunnilingus on me. And it probably goes without saying, never ever did any ask for, suggest, or make any intimations about them sticking their dicks in my ass.

Moody dear, I am so sorry for how society has changed, & for what you have experienced. I'm hugging you virtually right now. And BTW, when I was a girl, we all thought that blow jobs meant huffing and puffing air from our mouths onto a penis like when blowing out birthday candles or what the wolf did in the story of The Three Little Pigs.

[–]moody_ape 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

when I was a girl, we all thought that blow jobs meant huffing and puffing air from our mouths onto a penis like when blowing out birthday candles or what the wolf did in the story of The Three Little Pigs.

HAHAHAHAHA i wish! sounds liek more fun than the actual thing. you sure enjoyed your days. well, looking at the bright side of my experiences, i won't miss these days. on the contrary, i'll probably feel relieved for not having the same sxual drive and not being harrassed. i'll become invisible as opposed to fuckable and this idea doesn't sound so bad.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wow, I wish I had run in your circles instead of the bad company I fell into in the sixties.

There were selfish, demanding, pornsick guys then too. Maybe not as many, I don't know.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, there were... I said in my first comment to username Moody that there have always been guys who are sadists and users... I should have added some more general prefatory comments acknowledging that there have always been guys who are sexually selfish & pornsick. In her 1970 book, Kate Millet exposed how such themes ran deep in major respected, acclaimed literary works like Henry Miller's novels & "Lady Chatterly's Lover." And of course the 1960s was an era that lionized men like Normal Mailer.

As always back then, men in my country (the US) as everywhere committed tons of sexual assault, rape & harassment of girls/women - & I like most girls experienced plenty of it. But not from the guys I dated. As you intimated, my dating pool/social circle was definitely a factor: the boys/young men I dated were decent guys who'd been raised to have good manners (like Do Bees from the kiddie show Romper Room, LOL)... I knew and was hit on (and even stalked & assaulted) by creepy & bad guys, but I never dated or had voluntary sex with any of 'em, so they were excluded from my early teen make-out sessions.

The movie that really mainstreamed porn in the US ("Deep Throat") came out in 1972, when I turned 18, & there was a lot of other terrible media out there that seemed to celebrate male violence & sexual aggression ("Straw Dogs," "A Clockwork Orange"). But funny thing, in the late 60s and early 70s, feminism ("women's lib") had become quite mainstream too. So the prevailing culture was very much a mixed bag.

The years when I was making out with boys but not doing any dick (67, 68, 69, 70) seem to have occurred in what might have been a brief "sweet spot" of a cultural moment - or perhaps an uncharacteristic blip - when even as "free love" and "sexual revolution" were replacing prudery, politeness & repression to become the prevailing ethos in the West (providing boys & men new means of pressuring, coercing & guilting girls/women into unwanted sex acts) it was still the case that (some) boys & young men (all my BFs back then were young as I was, LOL) treated the girls/women they were into sexually in respectful ways while they at the very same time said boys/young men were really proud of being able to get their hands in our pants and get us off.

It was the era when the radio was full of hit songs in which males sung of their undying adoration for the girls/women they were in love with as in "My Girl" (Temptations), "Cherish" (The Association), "I Love You More Today Than Yesterday But Not as Much as Tomorrow" (Spiral Staircase), "This Guy's In Love With You" (Herb Alpert & Tijuana Brass), "Crazy Love" (Van Morrison), "Our House" (Crosby Stills Nash & Young) and a zillion others.

Of course, those sorts of songs didn't/don't represent the entire cultural climate of the time, but the idea that being a "real man" meant being a decent bloke who was caring & respectful to the girl/woman with whom he was in love was very much in the air: "To Love Somebody" (Bee Gees, 1967) https://youtu.be/QHtGu0OGEpc "Happy Together" (Turtles, 1967) https://youtu.be/mRCe5L1imxg "I Was Made To Love Her" (Stevie Wonder, 1967) https://youtu.be/9pYux5-d1Es "Never My Love" (Association, 1967) https://youtu.be/UzgpB9xpyT8 "Your Love Keeps Lifting Me Higher" (Jackie Wilson, 1967) https://youtu.be/mzDVaKRApcg "Midnight Confession" (Grass Roots, 1968) https://youtu.be/5nZnqtDdsws "A Girl Like You" (Rascals, 1968) https://youtu.be/8X9PjUpWpLk (Cornelius Brothers) https://youtu.be/Bet9mulSszI "Every Day With You Girl" (Classics IV, 1969) https://youtu.be/hG4DPXnPqNA Treat Her Like A Lady" (Cornelius Brothers, 1971) https://youtu.be/Bet9mulSszI

[–]MonstrousRegiment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Super playlist!

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not trying to violate the forum rules, but how did you figure out if you were lesbian when you enjoyed doing sexual things with men? This sexual fluidity thing has really been getting to me. My girlfriend has been with 20 men, and gets off, but for some reason I still feel like she’s lesbian. Am I deluding myself? I hope this doesn’t break forum rules

[–]vitunrotta[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dear lord. Yeah, ANAL SEX is definitely the go-to solution when you already feel discomfort during vaginal penetration.

The sad thing is that a lot of men have zero clue what is going on with women's bodies. A lot of guys I've had sex with had a truly peculiar idea of where clitoris is, for example. And many of them would throw a hissy fit if I was to kindly suggest that they were a few miles off... Smh. Also, the "gifted ones" who had managed to learn where clitoris was located used to treat it like it was a panic button and/or piece of steak that just needed to be SLAPPED and vigorously rubbed until it was completely numb.

Seriously, boys need to be forced to take a proper female anatomy class where they're taught what is where, and what kind of treatment is generally painful/pleasurable. Right now they are learning from porn, and we all know how THAT ends up.

(Edit: wording)

[–]Finnegan7921 20 insightful - 6 fun20 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

"feminist man" is today's equivalent of the 90s dude taking women's studies 101 just to meet girls. These guys are such bullshit artists.

[–]BEB 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Whenever I hear about anal sex now being demanded of women, and some women saying they like it, I'm baffled because women don't have prostrates, so where is women's pleasure in anal sex?

If a man had asked any of the women I knew growing up for anal sex, he would have been looked at with horror and probably never been spoken to again. It just wasn't done. It was "icky." And it still actually is. Painful and icky.

EDITED TO ADD:

And anal sex is dangerous, because, without lubrication (and even with), and with the woman clenching, it greatly increase the chance for tearing, as well as condom breaking, which greatly increases a woman's chance of contracting HIV.

In the meantime, California schools are teaching young kids how to be porn stars under the guise of sex education and LGBTQ inclusion.

The pedophiles used to be part of the gay rights movement, they only got kicked out by the lesbians in the 1990s if I remember correctly.

Now I think the pedophiles are coming back in: I think that all this "sex positivity" and teaching school kids things like how to rim, is the backdoor way of letting the pedophiles in (no pun intended) because it normalizes what used to be considered depraved sexual acts in the minds of kids before they are even pubescent.

Society is heading into a very dark place and we need to stop it by contacting our schools, finding out what is being taught under the guise of "sex ed" and saying NO.

[–]moody_ape 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

where is women's pleasure in anal sex?

oh, haven't you heard the news? it's empowering. and we all know that the clitoris' stimulation comes directly from the pleasurewomen provide to their partners. /s

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And anal sex is dangerous, because, without lubrication (and even with), and with the woman clenching, it greatly increase the chance for tearing, as well as condom breaking, which greatly increases a woman's chance of contracting HIV.

Anal sex is dangerous especially for women also because the injuries and stretching it causes make it much more likely women will develop problems like painful hemorrhoids, fissures, prolapse and fecal incontinence later on in life - such as during pregnancy and after childbirth, or in middle-age and menopause and in their senior years.

Young people who've never had hemorrhoids can't imagine how excruciating and life-limiting they can be. And they don't seem to understand how common they are already: 50% of the population over 50 of both sexes already has them without any anal sex at all. Women - who are especially vulnerable to hemorrhoids during/after pregnancy, childbirth and menopause - are most likely going to experience them at higher rates if their sex lives involve being anally penetrated, especially forcefully, by dicks, fists and objects.

And hemorrhoids ain't the half of it. For example, amongst today's senior citizens and seniors of the past, it's long been established that women suffer from fecal incontinence at twice the rates of men. And those are women who, with rare exceptions, have never been the recipients of anal penetration during sex.

I really worry about the longterm health of girls & young women who are now coming to think that being penetrated anally - and forcefully - is "normal" and "no big deal." Once they start having children and aging, I fear they are going to find that they've experienced longterm damage that's going to have a terrible impact on their lives.

In a report published this year, 2,109 randomly selected women over age 40 in the Kaiser health system were surveyed (average age 56), and 24% were found to suffer from fecal incontinence (frequency ranged from occasionally to frequently to daily to constantly).

"CONCLUSIONS: Fecal incontinence, a common problem for females, is associated with substantial adverse affects on quality of life."

I fear in another generation or two, the % is gonna be much greater than the already way-too-high 24%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1557355/

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have so many questions about so many things. Is there a possibility that the rate of fecal incontinence could be increased due to the typical diet of today, the medications that can cause constipation, and the obesity rates? I don't know what the colon health of today's women compares to with women that had more whole-food-based diets say even 50 years ago. It's strange because women's pelvic floor health has gone to hell, and we used to crank out a lot more children than we do in current times in the West.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, medications, obesity, crap diets probably all play a part. As do increasingly sedentary lifestyles and I'm sure other factors too. Add to those the issue of having a history of regularly being the recipient of anal penetration, done forcefully or even violently, and my hunch is that a woman's odds for longterm problems will only go up...

It's hard to tell if women's pelvic floor health really has gone to hell compared to the past, coz in the past so many women suffered such problems in silence, or if they sought out medical care their complaints weren't taken seriously - and still aren't.

Making comparisons between then and now is also complicated by the fact that back when women had a lot more babies in the West (during the baby boom era, for example), women in the West under medical care also laboured & gave birth very differently than in more recent & current times.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

teaching school kids things like how to rim

WHAT. Is this for real. Beam me up, Scotty, I am done with this world...

[–]Literallyoprah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

and some women saying they like it, I'm baffled

I have anal sex pretty often with my boyfriend, especially when I'm on my period. I enjoy the stimulation, and If I or my partner is stimulating my clitoris, I can have pretty intense orgasams from it.

There's a risk of poop, sure, but you just make sure you poop and wash your butt before hand. If you're eating a healthy diet, you don't usually have shit in your rectum unless you're about to poop.

It's definitely not for everyone though.

[–]BEB 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If it works for you, then... but please read what the other poster, MarkTwainiac (spe?) wrote about the risks of anal sex for women.

Young people often feel that they will always be healthy, especially if they live a healthy lifestyle, I know I did. I still feel I'll be able to beat some age-related conditions because I do exercise and eat relatively well - but age gets all of us so please do read Mark Twainiac's (sp?) great research.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

BEB - thanks for endorsing & amplifying my points. I know a number of gay men now in their 50s, 60s & 70s who are really regretting the amount of anal penetration of themselves they engaged in during their younger years.

Medical research has shown a direct link between being a recipient of anal penetration in sex and fecal incontinence in both male and females.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5231615/

Also, since in your post above you mentioned that being the recipient of anal penetration by a penis increased the chance of contracting HIV, I shoud mention that HIV isn't the only issue here. There's considerable scientific evidence that being the recipient of anal penetration increases the likelihood that a person will also contract chlamydia, gonorrhea, hepatitis and herpes - and that females are more susceptible to getting such infections through anal penetration due to differences in anatomy & physiology.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324637#stis

Significantly, TIFs who engage in sex in which they are anally penetrated (by dicks, fists/arms, strap-ons & other objects) have what appear to be pretty high rates of ALL these sexually-transmitted diseases:

Of the transgender women tested, 13.1% tested positive for chlamydia and 12.6% tested positive for gonorrhea at 1 or more anatomic sites, and 14.2% were HIV-infected. Of transgender men tested, 7.7% and 10.5% tested positive for chlamydia and gonorrhea at 1 or more anatomic sites, and 8.3% were HIV-infected.

Yes, TIFs have these diseases at lower rates than TIMs, but at considerably higher rates than the rest of the female population. I can't find exactly corresponding figures for women who don't ID as trans, but I'd be very surprised to find that amongst females who aren't trans-identified 10.5% have chlamydia & gonorrhea - and 8.3% have HIV.

The research I've read says that 10-12 years ago, four percent of girls age 14-19 in the US had chlamydia, and 18% had HPV - but gonorrhea & HIV weren't mentioned in the research - so apparently weren't considered significant enough to mention/include.

However, I can't find research that says what percentage of females overall have each particular STD; instead most of the studies simply say that of the various infections diagnosed at any given time, X number or X percentage were amongst female people.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30278030/

BTW, LOL, you got the spelling of my user name right. It's just a combo of Twain & maniac, meaning I am a big fan of/nutty about Mr Clemens.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The best case scenario I have heard is that "I dunno, it just feels...different."

Like, I'm not going through that much prep, pain, and danger for "different".

Everything else came from reddit and since so many "women" have turned out to be TW, I'm just assuming they liked it because of their glittery lil' lady prostates.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Someone on Twitter posted a picture of TEEN VOGUE writers, and guess what kind of women they were?

A few years ago, TEEN VOGUE published a guide to anal sex, in which they called girls "non-prostate havers" or something similar, so no surprise TEEN VOGUE's "female" writers have balls. Literally.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am familiar with those articles! Learning that the writers are dudes is sadly not surprising, but it is creepy. It's grooming, straight up.

I remember around election time I'd see so many people in the political subs around Reddit mentioning "Wow, Teen Vogue has surprisingly legit journalism!" or "You know you're a shit news site when Teen Vogue has better articles than you." Stuff like that. God damn I am so tired of sounding like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but isn't it at all suspicious that the manosphere that is Reddit is suddenly cool with a girl's rag right around the time it starts publishing groomy shit?

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I seem to remember that Conde Nast, publishers of TEEN VOGUE and a whole bunch of other gender-spewing publications, was bought by a company that was tied to Big Pharma and /or Big Medicine, so now has a vested interest in trying to persuade kids to transition.

I will have to check to verify that, though, so don't take it as fact yet.

[–]yishengqingwa666 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

If men want anal sex so badly they should fuck other men. TIMs would be the perfect partner for most men nowadays, since they have prostates. They deserve each other.

[–]Literallyoprah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Do you have any idea how many straight men want to fuck trans-women? It's wild.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You seem more like "literallyTRA" to me by your comments so far.

Please leave.

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's a number, it's not the norm though.

[–]Literallyoprah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean, most men don't want to fuck rad-fems either.

[–]Comatoast 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think either side is terribly upset about it though if that's the case.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh please. Most radfems would say, "Good, now go on an' git."

And most men... well beggars pretend to be choosers ha ha.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh for sure, I remember back when Craigslist had casual encounters. Mostly transwomen offering handies, maybe more, after hours at this one popular local park. Stunning and brave.

[–]Literallyoprah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

...Why were you trolling the craiglist T4M section?

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Just casual encounters in general, but y'know why does anyone watch a dumpster fire or train wreck?

[–]Literallyoprah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In your case because you have an unhealthy obesession with trans people.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

XD You love the attention!

[–]vitunrotta[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not super sure where I've landed on other people doing consensual things in privacy.

This is an important note. I wanted to write more but noticed my text was already getting quite lengthy, so I was hoping we could continue discussing in more nuance in the comment section.

To me personally it doesn't matter what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes (or other private places, to clarify). As long as it's a safe environment and safe partner/s, it's not my business. Not judging anyone who does have a fetish, either, but I wanted to point out the flipside of the coin: that not having a fetish or a kink is suddenly something one should feel bad about. The terrible reality of being VANILLA. And it's being pushed quite aggressively now - one example would be what your friend experienced.

More mature and strong-willed girls/women are likely to refuse suggestions of sexual acts they are not comfortable with, but there are a lot of younger people who are still very much trying to figure out their sexuality and will "consent" to whatever uncomfortable(/degrading) act in order to please their partner. I'd wager that in most cases it's a guy asking for a sexual favour and the one seemingly agreeing to it is a girl. I don't have data to back this up though: this is based on my own experiences, and talking to other women.

These impressionable young girls are the ones I'm mainly worried about, and I'm afraid some of them will come out of these encounters with some sort of trauma; or a twisted idea of what is acceptable and where one needs to draw the line. Exploring sex as a teenager is already a minefield, and now with the constant push of porn it is likely much worse.

(Also - the way your friend handled the situation was perfection. Guys so often suggest anal sex and don't consider at all what they're even asking, until you reverse the question. Then it's all gasps and eews and oh-my-gods. Funny that...)

[–]TalkToTheVoid 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think I completely agree with this comment :)

Perhaps where I struggle is more with the issue of how to encourage knowing and establishing your boundaries (girls as a whole need this more), and respecting boundaries (boys as a whole need this more), while at the same time not making the topic of sex and kinks and fantasies some sort of taboo that can't be discussed. Like you said, it's a more nuanced discussion, and I feel a bit afraid and lost in discussing it. Thank you for bringing it up :)

Also, yes my friend is a pretty bad-ass, strong-willed person :) though she's definitely come to this point after going through other more vulnerable times.

Which reminds me of another issue that bothers me in this vanilla shaming tendency. I think it's likely to hurt those who're already traumatised, more.
I've a different friend who tends to be less strong-willed, has a difficult history with men, including some abuse, and has been affected by society's narrative of "unwed women are worthless". She was convinced by a guy she was seeing to have sex with him multiple times, without protection. She didn't want to, but she felt she had to please him, because he kept making it about how she's being difficult and it would be so much better without condoms. This man was able to push her to violate her own boundaries because she's already weak with holding them. This relationship and that she kept agreeing to doing it his way weighs on her now, several years later.

It's not the same thing, but I think similar mechanisms are at play.

A lot of people, who are already carrying hurts, will give in and do things they're not comfortable with, because the need to be accepted and to please is strong in them, and then the effects will weigh on them and further hurt them.

I think all of this is hard to say without making it like I'm saying all non-vanilla sex is bad.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Very much agree with this. Of course it is not only young girls who may be at risk here: anyone e.g. already traumatized, or who has a lesser understanding of one's boundaries is likely to participate in acts they actually are not comfortable with.

Reminds me of a woman I used to know, she was in her early twenties back then, and had little (if any) experience in sex prior to meeting her boyfriend. If I remember correctly this was her first sexual partner. What the guy used to tell her is that he couldn't come if she was wet: which meant that he'd start pounding her while she was still dry as the Sahara. Needless to say, it hurt - so she told me and another female friend. We were alarmed and told her this was not OK at all and it sounded more like rape than sex. But she only existed to please The Man, of course, so she'd "accept" this was the one and only way to have sex. The guy would also (so she told) laugh at the fact that she had a few odd hairs around her butthole - that was apparently unwomanly and also hilarious. She'd have to shave herself completely, I imagine while holding a microscope to her nether areas to ensure NO horrible stray hairs were visible! The dude himself looked like Oscar the Grouch, by the way...

This just to say that it indeed isn't just young girls that will fall prey to this. I knew this woman around 2012, since then things have gotten far worse - not just for her, but all females, it feels.

I think all of this is hard to say without making it like I'm saying all non-vanilla sex is bad.

I get what you mean. There are distinctions though. Someone smarter already posted about this, but for the life of me I cannot find that reply now. :D Anyway, I totally understand your point. One needn't be anti-fetishist to be against forcing and normalizing porn/kinks to young girls and boys.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally agree that shaming people for their sexual needs is not a good thing.

That said (you could see that coming, I'm sure) I have a comment based on my experience with a long-term partner who had a variety of fetishes. Sex with this person, for me, was off-putting and dehumanizing because his focus was not on communication with me, but on himself and the thing that turned him on.

On the other hand it's of course perfectly possible to have shitty, uncommunicative sex with a non-fetishist too!

[–]moody_ape 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

next time a guy asks for anal