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[–]MarkTwainiac 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Since as you say, the trans phenom is not evenly distributed but occurs only within specific demographic groups, I think it's important not to lump them all together under the heading of "social contagion."

For the girls and teen girls and young women who are coming out in droves as trans and non-binary and gender queer, yes it seems to be driven by social contagion - and an entirely new social contagion at that. Hence, in teen girls' friend groups, a whole bunch of girls will "come out" as trans (or whatever) at the same time. They are encouraging each other to be trans, and teaching and coaching each other on exactly how to go about it, just the way girls used to teach each other how to be anorectic and bulimic.

For the kids being transed by their parents and other adults, the parents seem to be involved in a social contagion, but the parents' underlying motives are narcissism and attention-seeking, sexism, rigid beliefs in and adherence to strict sex role stereotypes, a desire to control their kids, and homophobia.

For the homosexual men who want to bed straight men, the fad of going trans seems to be partly due to social contagion, but mostly it's driven by their own internalized homophobia, extreme narcissism, their total immersion in their own fantasy lives, and a weird combo of their own overwhelming sexual needs and compulsions that drive them exclusively to desire straight men alongside their total inability to grasp and accept the basic truth of straight male sexuality - which is that straight men want females, not males pretending to be the opposite sex. But most of gay guys who become trans develop their sexual tastes and compulsions on their own and in secrecy at a very young age; they're not picking this stuff up from other boys the way all the girls/young women with ROGD are. Though nowadays these boys are of course being heavily influenced by new trends in online porn and the fact that being trans has become a powerful new sociopolitical movement that provides trans-identified people with all sorts power, privileges and benefits.

As for the huge number of heterosexual boys, young men and full grown men going trans, they are driven by male sexual compulsion and narcissism of autogynephilia. AGP is of course now been spurred heavily by online porn, LARPing, the internet etc, and that's why it's becoming more widespread and visible. But the condition existed in a significant % of men long before the current era and the new technologies of modern telecommunications and social media.

The AGP impulse originates within the psyches of individual boys themselves during early puberty, and it's in early puberty that their lifelong AGP tendencies and habits get cemented. However, when AGP youths start imagining themselves as females and using items of "female" clothing & intimate care as masturbation aids - and they find it gives them massive boners and the super-orgasms they call "gender euphoria" - they almost always do so entirely on their own and in total secrecy. And as adolescents, these boys' AGP usually causes them to feel a great deal of isolation and shame - and bad as the shame makes them feel, their shame also enhances the erotic pleasure they get from their AGP. Only after these guys have been stealing women's undies and intimate products to jerk off in and to and this has become their fixed pattern do they find other males with the same proclivities to egg each other on and bolster each other's entitlement and power.

[–]yousaythosethings 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Add to the heterosexual young boys the category of transtrenders. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between them and AGPs, but someone I know personally I do not believe is AGP, but rather a transtrender who is autistic and anime-obsessed and has been drawn in by the sense of community, feeling of belonging, and his rejection of male sex stereotypes that he could never live up to.

[–]marmorsymphata 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jesus, that's so depressing, to feel made to relinquish who you are because you can't be enough of a monster as the rest of them...

[–]soundsituation 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Impressive analysis. I'm curious about one thing though: I noticed that TIFs were the only group for whom you did not list narcissism as a contributing factor. Was that an accidental omission or do you believe that narcissism doesn't generally play a role in the motivations of that demographic?

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I definitely think there are many TIFs for whom narcissism is a contributing or central factor, especially those who persist with their insistence they are men into adulthood. For example, Chase Strangio of the ACLU strikes me as a malignant narcissist.

But amongst the specific groups of TIFs I was discussing - teen girls and young women suffering from ROGD spread by social contagion - I think narcissism is a much smaller or often entirely absent factor. The intense self-focus that many girls and young women with ROGD display seems a natural part/stage of adolescence that many/most of them outgrow; it's not clinical narcissism.

For girls and young women with ROGD, the core issue isn't an excess of (apparent) self-love, self-importance, entitlement and rage towards the larger world, it's an absence of them.

[–]Madsea 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think there’s a lot more BPD among the girls.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But isn't the idea of, and diagnosis of, "BPD" under question because it's a label/dx that tends to get placed on girls & women who've experienced severe trauma, including & particularly childhood sexual abuse?

I'm old, & have been following these issues for my lifetime, and I recall very distinctly how skeptical many feminists & thoughtful psychotherapists of both sexes were back in 1980 when "BPD" was first entered into the DSM. That happened immediately after feminists had started to bring attention to how widespread childhood sexual abuse actually is, and many scholars began to refute Freud's theories about children "just fantasizing" about sex abuse and exposed why/how/when Freud concocted these theories.

I think a lot of the girls falling prey to "gender dysphoria" and transmania today are deeply troubled for a variety of reasons, including various kinds of trauma, sexual abuse and sexual objectification.

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Can you please define ROGD? Thank you. Overall really appreciate your analysis.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Rapid onset gender dysphoria is the term coined by Lisa Littman MD to describe gender dysphoria that came on suddenly during adolescence amongst young people, mostly girls, who never before expressed distress over their sex.

ROGD is a new form of "gender dysphoria." It's very different from the traditional kinds long recognized by psychologists and sexologists, which are: childhood gender dysphoria, which affects kids prior to puberty, many/most of them gay growing up in homophobic families, communities and cultures; autogynephilic gender dysphoria, which occurs in heterosexual adolescent and adult males who are sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women, and tend to become obsessed with the the idea, which many sexologists consider to be the most severe kind of GD; homosexual gender dysphoria, previously homosexual transvestism (disorder), which affects homosexual adults who find they can't live comfortably as gay men or lesbians for a variety of reasons, including rigid sex stereotypes, the homophobia of others/society at large, and their own often very great internalized homophobia...

https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

https://lilymaynard.com/rogd-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

https://quillette.com/2019/03/19/an-interview-with-lisa-littman-who-coined-the-term-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

https://www.parentsofrogdkids.com/

[–]Skipdip 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is so useful. You are the real MVP out here with all the facts! Thank you fellow lesbian warrior!

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So glad to be of use. I have TONs of resources on these topics. And my main reason for being here is to share them.

BTW, I am so complimented that you called me a sister or "fellow lesbian warrior." But sorry to disappoint, I'm (mostly/mainly) heterosexual. For much of my life I've been the "token het" amongst various social & political circles comprised mostly or entirely of lesbians, and also of gay men... I often have wished & tried to change my sexual orientation, & of course I've had plenty of crushes on women & a few dalliances, but at my core my straightness seems pretty innate. Again, thanks for the compliment & sorry to disappoint! LOL

[–]Skipdip 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah ok, makes sense! Well thank you for being such an ally to us. I’m not totally sure where I got that impression, maybe I confused the gc sub with the lesbian one. I also appreciate when people know that sexual orientation isn’t a choice, and it is categorical. The fluid sexual spectrum thing has been harmful esp to lesbians of my generation.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, the whole "fluid sexual spectrum thing" has indeed been harmful to lesbians of recent generations. Just as were previous iterations of the same lesbophobia ("it's just a phase, she'll grow out of it;" "all she needs is a good shag;" "she just hasn't met the right man yet") for previous generations.

Also, my respect for lesbians and awareness of the myriad extra difficulties lesbians face is one of the reasons I as a (mostly) heterosexual woman believe women such as myself (who are mainly het with a sprinkling of bi) should never pursue the crushes we get on lesbians.

As an older ally, I just want to say how sorry I am for the cultural climate of today that is so inhospitable to, and abusive of, lesbians. Best wishes to you - and sorry for my being short with you on those other threads you started!

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! Very helpful information

[–]slushpilot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent comment. I was specifically addressing the point of young girls, but you're right that there's a trove of reasons that need to be unpacked and understood. This means we need to be able to question and discuss these issues openly without dismissing it as "transphobia".