Both: How do you feel about Title IX being changed to protect gender identity instead of biological sex?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]worried19[S] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

I just feel disheartened. It's like one step forward, two steps back, especially in the USA. I don't understand how this squares with freedom of religion, since there are religions where girls are not allowed to touch males or undress in front of males. I don't understand how politicians can throw high school girls under the bus and remove all chances of them winning competitions because they were not born male. There is no way they can compete against natal males with unaltered bodies who have gone through male puberty. Does Joe Biden care? Do the Democrats care? Of course not. They smear these girls as haters and bigots. It's depressing.

[–]SnowAssMan 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

What's the difference between being male & being "born male"? What's the difference between male & "natal male"?

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

No difference, it's just that I've gotten used to using "natal male" on this sub. Also, I don't support child transition, so while I'm happy to call adults "trans women," I don't feel the same about "trans girls."

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think those terms proliferate the idea that sex is mutable. I think this is a harmful idea for both sides. For instance, if someone is considering medical transition they shouldn't be under the impression that the changes they undergo will be tantamount to a change in sex, otherwise they're bound to be disappointed with the results, to some degree at least.

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's out of date now, but "transsexual" makes more sense to me than other terms, along with referring to "biological sex" or "birth sex" for clarification purposes. Trans people are not helped by those claiming that a literal transformation of sex is taking place.

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I don't know much about law but would this extend to sport? I just briefly looked thru the page, and it says protection of gender identity falls under protection of sex. I'm thinking sports is one place where sex discrimination is allowed. Girls teams are allowed to say boys aren't allowed in their sport on the basis of sex. So if protection of gender identity falls under protection of sex, wouldn't girls teams be allowed to turn down transwomen as well?

[–]worried19[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

WoLF also created a helpful FAQ:

https://www.womensliberationfront.org/news/faq-dept-of-ed-changes-to-title-ix-interpretation

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the link. I didn't even realize dorms and showers were opened to self-id. Really hope there hasn't been any incidents.

[–]worried19[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, if there are, the mainstream media will make sure we never hear about them.

[–]worried19[S] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, it extends to sports. Biden has been championing allowing natal males into girls' sports at all levels, including high school and college, regardless of whether they have made any medical changes to their bodies.

Some relevant links:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/22/transgender-athletes-joe-biden-executive-order

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/biden-administration-withdraws-transgender-athlete-case-n1258723

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Ahh, I see. Well, if I'm being optimistic maybe this will the the final straw for people. I mean, people have to realize there's something wrong when they see a completely untransitioned male person competing in sports with women. You gotta be insane to think otherwise.

[–]worried19[S] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You would think, but the mainstream media is trying their hardest to gaslight people into believing it's no big deal.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think this is shaping up for a guaranteed legal challenge via the First Amendment's religious clauses ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .) and a strong and continuing pushback at the state level. Since the feds seem to be opting for forcing the issue rather than dialog and mediation, there will be resistance. They could have done better.

[–]worried19[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hold out hope for the Supreme Court.

It's not just the conservatives on the court. The justices are very strong on freedom of religion, both right and left. Unanimous decision just yesterday upholding religious rights over LGBT rights:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/supreme-court-sides-with-catholic-adoption-agency-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 12 fun2 insightful - 11 fun3 insightful - 12 fun -  (1 child)

I guess the bigots don’t get to compete then

[–]worried19[S] 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

No comment.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 11 fun2 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 11 fun -  (7 children)

Not true. Due to the numbers involves cis women usually beat trans women.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

Poor innocent souls, they should have their space away from those horrible "cis" women.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 11 fun2 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 11 fun -  (5 children)

Just the bigots

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

No no, all of them. All women flaunt their "cis" womanhood in one way or another, can you imagine how triggering it would be for the poor stunning trans ladies? "Cis" women need to stay away from them, and trans ladies definitely deserve spaces only for them when they cannot be disturbed, inconvenienced or attacked.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 6 fun14 insightful - 5 fun15 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

can you imagine how triggering it would be for the poor stunning trans ladies?

How dare you call them “stunning” but leave out “brave”! Transphobe…

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

My most sincerest apologies! What is an appropriate public shaming for such a crime by omission?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

You’re canceled.

Sorry, I don’t want to do it but it’s just the way it goes.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I guess it' s only fair and reasonable. If this is how society works, then I can only accept the punishment and vanish into thin air so that I can make the World a better place!