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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (24 children)

But it's not about the other parties present ignoring adolescent boys' spontaneous erections, it's about the embarrassment that they cause the boys themselves. Pubescent boys find the unpredictable behavior of their penises mortifying enough in any event - why add to their distress by creating situations where their unwanted, embarrassing boners are naked & in full view of their female relatives, teachers, neighbors, classmates, etc?

Then change in a stall.

We know this. But that's pie in the sky. It's not gonna happen. The rest of us here are having a convo about the real world in the present time.

But there are many of us who fight for gender neutral spaces.

A main goal of a civilized society should be to allow everyone regardless of age, sex, race, physical ability, cultural heritage, belief, religious faith, background etc to participate in society and move through the public world outside the home with a sense of dignity, bodily privacy and peace of mind.

This is exactly why we have discrimination laws.

Of course you didn't ask. Coz you seem not to give a shit about anyone but yourself and the one small, select group whom you place above everyone else. Sorry, but you come across as utterly bereft of the qualities of both brain and heart that are necessary to devise public policies that are fair and humane to all the diverse parties involved.

Just because I am against sex-segregated spaces doesn't mean I only think about myself above everyone else. That's a bold assumption to make.

[–]MarkTwainiac 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Then change in a stall.

But we're specifically talking about open change rooms. Your "solution" is akin to the Queen of France's response when she heard that millions of French peasants were starving due to lack of bread: let them eat cake.

But there are many of us who fight for gender neutral spaces.

Total non sequitur, LOL. My point was that most change rooms in the real world at the present time are large communal spaces that do not have stalls for everyone (or anyone), and due to space & budget constraints, that's likely to remain the case. And you come back with: Many of us fight for mixed-sex spaces. Huh?

This is exactly why we have discrimination laws.

Excellent illustration of the fact that you have no clue about how societies actually work. Anti-discrimination laws are legal instruments that IRL function as tools of last resort. The reason most people in democratic, plural societies try to treat others decently, humanely and fairly isn't because anti-discrimination laws are on the books, and we're afraid of getting sued or hauled before a human rights tribunal. It's because of the values and rules we were raised with. It's because moral development is a key part of child development, and people raised in plural societies that aim to be democratic and fair are generally taught growing up that a) other people are separate to us; b) other people often feel differently about the same exact situation than we ourselves do; c) other people have rights just as much as we ourselves do, our own rights do not come before the rights of others; d) the rights of different individuals and groups often clash and conflict; and d) everyone's different views and rights need to be taken into account - and accommodated - in designing and running public provisions, institutions and programs.

Just because I am against sex-segregated spaces doesn't mean I only think about myself above everyone else. That's a bold assumption to make.

Bold as it may be, what I've said is not a baseless assumption. Far from it, in fact. I've arrived at a conclusion based on observation of the evidence you've provided in your own very clear statements individually and in totality - evidence everyone who reads your posts can see.

It's not your opposition to sex-segregated spaces that make you come across as though you only think about yourself and you place you and your feelings above everyone else. It's the solipsism, callousness towards others and the downright cruelty you've repeatedly displayed - and seemingly proudly too.

BTW, some of us here who disagree with you are also for the addition of mixed-sex spaces, and/or of more unisex spaces such as single stall toilets. Some of us here actually have fought in the trenches for such. I've personally been involved in campaigning for wheelchair accessible toilets (single use ones as well as enlarged stalls with bars in communal loos) and for female-only spaces in workplaces where lactating mothers can express breastmilk in dignity and hygienically, and dedicated refrigerators where we can safely store it until the end of the work shift too.

If you were arguing for additional mixed-sex communal spaces and/or additional unisex single-user spaces, many here would back you. But you're not advocating that new spaces & provisions be added to what already exists - you want to remove the existing single-sex spaces that work so well for so many, and which previous generations of women fought for. Moreover, when others point out that removing single-sex spaces will discomfort, distress and endanger large swathes of the population, particularly the female 51%, you a purported "feminist" double down and say, in effect, tough shit.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But we're specifically talking about open change rooms. Your "solution" is akin to the Queen of France's response when she heard that millions of French peasants were starving due to lack of bread: let them eat cake.

applauds

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

You’re literally telling women to go change in a stall so we don’t have to look at teenagers erections lmao.

You’re absolutely putting the feelings of others way below yours and the feelings of hypothetical men. If you can’t see that, you’re being deliberately obtuse to a degree that boggles the mind.

You are very clearly unwilling or incapable of showing empathy for women. Dismissing women’s feelings and telling them to leave their space and change in the little box (that doesn’t accommodate a wheelchair or a walking frame, fuck you disabled women) so boys don’t get embarrassed over the women in the women’s changing room seeing his accidental boner. You could save yourself time and just tell us all to go fuck ourselves and obey men instead of couching that exact idea in all the caping for gender.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (20 children)

I'm telling the teenager to go change in a stall.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Why can’t he change in a stall in the men’s room? Why does he need to be in the ladies room if he’s so embarrassed and aroused by seeing females in sports bras?

It’s like you’re deliberately making a situation with less dignity for others because you personally don’t feel undignified in the situations you describe.

Try remembering that your standards aren’t applicable to others and that other people have feelings and thoughts you don’t and that they don’t need to change them to match yours.

You were very clearly stating the women should change in the stall. Like..read back what was written before you responded ‘just change in a stall’

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (18 children)

I meant the teenage boy should change in the stall. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

And I’m saying you are wrong and the teenage boy should not be in the same space as women in the first place.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (16 children)

I guess we disagree. I have and will continue to use men's bathrooms and locker rooms.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you use the men's bathrooms and locker rooms if you don't identify as a "trans man"?

Also, by your comments, it seems like this is something you do often by your own volition and that you are easily recognized as female. So, I assume that you don't find this behaviour to be threatening to your identity or safety as a woman. So, how you reconcile this with the claims of males who identify as trans of men's bathrooms and locker rooms being dangerous and invalidating for them?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Then you’re being inconsiderate of boys and men who may be uncomfortable with your presence, and putting yourself in unnecessary risk. Ring-a-ding-ding.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (13 children)

What if a bunch of men in the locker room don't want to change in front of a trans woman and complain? Should that trans woman have to change in the woman's room because men see her as a woman and are uncomfortable with her presence?

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why men's issues with other men are fixed by throwing them on women and making women uncomfortable instead of teaching men to not be hateful? Why women must be uncomfortable and be silent about it instead? Sounds too misogynistic.

Lets rephrase too:

What if a bunch of men in the locker room don't want to change in front of a Gay man and complain? Should that gay man have to change in the woman's room because men see him not as fully man and are uncomfortable with his presence?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Weird how you care if these imaginary men complain but when women are telling you they are afraid of another assault you’ll sit here and type out why they’re bigots and why they’re wrong.

Maybe transgender people should demand third spaces instead of anything as stupid and inconsiderate as making everything sex neutral.