QT: Do you understand why women need single sex spaces?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (18 children)

I meant the teenage boy should change in the stall. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

And I’m saying you are wrong and the teenage boy should not be in the same space as women in the first place.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (16 children)

I guess we disagree. I have and will continue to use men's bathrooms and locker rooms.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you use the men's bathrooms and locker rooms if you don't identify as a "trans man"?

Also, by your comments, it seems like this is something you do often by your own volition and that you are easily recognized as female. So, I assume that you don't find this behaviour to be threatening to your identity or safety as a woman. So, how you reconcile this with the claims of males who identify as trans of men's bathrooms and locker rooms being dangerous and invalidating for them?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Then you’re being inconsiderate of boys and men who may be uncomfortable with your presence, and putting yourself in unnecessary risk. Ring-a-ding-ding.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (13 children)

What if a bunch of men in the locker room don't want to change in front of a trans woman and complain? Should that trans woman have to change in the woman's room because men see her as a woman and are uncomfortable with her presence?

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why men's issues with other men are fixed by throwing them on women and making women uncomfortable instead of teaching men to not be hateful? Why women must be uncomfortable and be silent about it instead? Sounds too misogynistic.

Lets rephrase too:

What if a bunch of men in the locker room don't want to change in front of a Gay man and complain? Should that gay man have to change in the woman's room because men see him not as fully man and are uncomfortable with his presence?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

It's you who doesn't view trans women as women and trans men as men, but many do. Why is it OK for men to be uncomfortable with a cis woman's presence but not a trans women's presence? It's still the same thing. In fact, your side admitted they will pepper spray anyone who appears masculine, even people AFAB. Its probably safer for trans men to use the men's locker room. And what does this have to do with gay men? I never mentioned gay men. How would other men know he is gay, unless he shouted his sexual orientation to the whole locker room?

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Can you not use medical malpractice called "assigning at birth" which was leading to so intersex genital mitilation, or at least no throw it in my face?

You co-opted highly traumatic experience to some of us without asking us or carying about us at all.

pepper spray

Which would be used against most transwomen as well, because "passing" ones are extreme minority.

And would be used for a reason. All women know that if male is breaking boundaries of women's spaces - get the f out of there. Good intentioned male will not do this in most cases, so risk is big of something unwanted happening.

And what does this have to do with gay men?

Because it is male on male issue too. Should it be fixed too by putting gay men with women, to make women uncomfortable instead?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Can you not use medical malpractice called "assigning at birth" which was leading to so intersex genital mitilation, or at least no throw it in my face?

You co-opted highly traumatic experience to some of us without asking us or carying about us at all.

Intersex people don't own the term "assigned fe/male at birth".

Which would be used against most transwomen as well, because "passing" ones are extreme minority.

And would be used for a reason. All women know that if male is breaking boundaries of women's spaces - get the f out of there. Good intentioned male will not do this in most cases, so risk is big of something unwanted happening

I hope anyone who uses pepper spray is prosecuted to the full extent of the law - unless it's in genuine self-defence.

Because it is male on male issue too. Should it be fixed too by putting gay men with women, to make women uncomfortable instead?

Many of us consider trans women female, so it's not a male on male issue 75% of the population.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

So are you ever going to acknowledge that gc isn’t a monolithic hive mind and stop expecting people here to assume responsibility for and provide answers for random posts on ovarit?

If not, please, provide a justification for yaniv and his desire to put tampons in little girls, as well as everything ever posted on that website you like, babycenter or whatever, since you are exactly as responsible for that as we are for one persons statement about pepper spray.

[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This isn't some rando comment with 0 upvotes. Calling a movement out on potentially problematic statements that are given a platform there is entirely fair, and GC similarly takes issue with QT for not gatekeeping their movement. The idea that violation of women's spaces is indicative of hostile intent is an accepted idea. If the notion of pepper-spraying anyone who looks like a man sounds problematic, the response should be to distance yourself from that. Otherwise, explain why it's not misunderstood and why it has merit.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

I never said GC was a hivemind. But the fact that there are people willing to spray anyone who appears male in the men's bathroom probably means trans men should just use the men's room, even if cis men don't like it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

in fact your side admitted they will...

You don’t need to say it explicitly for it to be clear what you think. Why do other people’s wants and needs not matter to you unless the person in question is you or a hypothetical transgender person? What specifically makes everyone else’s needs something that can be brushed aside?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Weird how you care if these imaginary men complain but when women are telling you they are afraid of another assault you’ll sit here and type out why they’re bigots and why they’re wrong.

Maybe transgender people should demand third spaces instead of anything as stupid and inconsiderate as making everything sex neutral.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

How about we turn men's spaces into gender neutral spaces and women's spaces for GC women?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It’s amazing how every solution you come up with fucks over someone.

What’s wrong with a third or fourth facility? Also FYI, not wanting to use unisex facilities does not make someone gender critical.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Ok, we can turn all men's facilities into unisex facilities and women's facilities to people born female who want to get away from men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you insist unisex facilities must exist? You keep ignoring any other solution and going right back to the one you personally prefer.