QT: A question of ideology

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (68 children)

Where? I am arguing that whilst needing to be a seperate category from women, transwomen deserve and have the right to safety and community in third spaces. What about that infringes on your rights?

Name the right, even, instead of just crying the same presumably copy+pasted accusation.

Where am I taking an active role in hurting you? What do I do day to day, you magical clairvoyant?

When you create harm doesn’t it create a moral imperative to ameliorative it.

No? Morals aren’t even universal so that’s just silly. Also, if this is the case, what are you doing personally to ameliorate the harm done to women by males taking their spaces?

As you are well aware, it’s pointless to try and convince me that it is a woman’s role to protect a category of men. That sentiment is entirely misogynistic and always will be. Women can’t stop men from hurting us, how do you think we’re gonna magically fix shit for you without giving up our own protection?

It’s particularly bizarre to constantly accuse me of causing the state of affairs for transgender people in America. Like, I can’t even vote there but you expect me to fix shit for you there? I’m far FAR more concerned with the thousands of beaten women in my own country, thanks.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (67 children)

Where? I am arguing that whilst needing to be a seperate category from women, transwomen deserve and have the right to safety and community in third spaces. What about that infringes on your rights?

But doing nothing to create those despite trying to strip us of what rights and access we have. And third spaces work for necessary spaces but you can’t have trans only “community” it doesn’t work because community required a social element.

Name the right, even, instead of just crying the same presumably copy+pasted accusation.

Literally all of them but employment. All the school protections that have come up in the circuit courts are based on the women’s protections in title 9 for instance.

No? Morals aren’t even universal so that’s just silly.

So you stab someone you don’t think you are morally required to keep them from dying more than a stranger who stumbles on the stabbing victim,?

what are you doing personally to ameliorate the harm done to women by males taking their spaces?

Supporting women’s shelters and harsher penalties for domestic violence and sex crimes despite generally advocating for substantially reduced sentences for most other crimes for the be. But also I’m not actually doing anything to expose women to harm so that’s not out of obligation.

As you are well aware, it’s pointless to try and convince me that it is a woman’s role to protect a category of men.

Trans women aren’t men, you are trying to change our classification to men. That’s what’s creating the harm requiring us to be newly protected. You are the ones engineering us to be in danger then arguing it isn’t your responsibility. Men are doing the harm but you are still causing it

Women can’t stop men from hurting us, how do you think we’re gonna magically fix shit for you without giving up our own protection?

You’ve got a better chance than we do and I’m not advocating to make it more likely for men to hurt you but you are advocating for men to be able to hurt us.

It’s particularly bizarre to constantly accuse me of causing the state of affairs for transgender people in America.

You are advocating for changes that would cause the harm. So if it were enacted based on your advocacy it would be your responsibility. How would it not be?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (66 children)

You just straight up ignore things like “I’m not American and can’t change your shit laws” and “ideology” dontcha?

Sorry all the rights isn’t recognised as a right? Can’t find it in a single charter.

Transwomen are men. Because men means nothing more than born male. What you choose to believe on top of that is your own business.

And no, if I stabbed someone, I’m not obliged to help them. If I’ve stabbed someone I’m in fact almost definitely not there to help them in any capacity because I’m stabbing them lmfao. What a stupid scenario to try and shame my morals

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (65 children)

You are still arguing for it. Whether you can vote on it isn’t material.

Trans women aren’t men. In body, in the way society treats them, power, all wildly disparate.

And no, if I stabbed someone, I’m not obliged to help them.

Then I consider you fundamentally a moral and there’s no point in further conversation

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

You can’t tackle my ideology in any capacity so yet again resort to blaming me personally and making up bizarre moral quandaries to judge me by as if it’s relevant or actually reflective of who I am.

I find you fundamentally misogynistic but I’m sure you’ll argue that my findings aren’t allowed but you’re free to call me fundamentally amoral over one extremely foolish question.

Should you gain the ability to argue the things actually important or relevant is maybe care about your dismissal. As it stands, your dismissal is a very thin veil for your total lack of actual arguments in favour of a round about ad hominem. Learn to argue mate.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

Of course stabbing someone is immoral but not helping them when you’ve injured them makes it worse.

If you can’t even agree that creating harm causes a moral obligation to cure it there is no way we can have an actual conversation about morality.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

You can’t have a conversation about morality with any disagreement. That’s on you and your closed mind.

For the rest of us, morals are complex, nuanced, and thankfully not a black and white dogma so thick that strangers can be called totally amoral over a single daft scenario.

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

For someone who says there is no further point to conversation you sure do bang on about your supposed moral superiority a lot. Notable that you once again ignore the parts of my comments where you can’t form an argument. This is such a tired method of showing your poor faith and poor debate skills.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm you caused.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

This is one of the worst things you’ve said in this sub. I can’t even say something snarky to you about it because what the actual fuck???? When I said on another post that you say things that scare me, I still didn’t expect you to say something like this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

So you defend yourself against an attacker and hurt them badly, you would just let them die? How does that not horrify you? You can’t just let people die.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You clearly have exactly no understanding of what it’s like to be in any of those scenarios then.
Lmao someone in the midst of psychosis, someone who is literally experiencing a different reality, or a terrified child experiencing flashbacks to extreme violence is morally failing by not providing assistance.

A woman is a moral failure if she does not get help for the man who was raping her.

Sure, IM the one with questionable morals here. I’m beyond disgusted. Thanks for the new flair tho.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Not at all surprised that the response was “help your rapist if you stab them to stop the rape. It’s your moral duty.”

I had a split moment of “wait what the fuck are they saying” until I remembered who you were talking to. Sounds about right for masks, sadly- though a bit worse than I expected. Women aren’t allowed to protect themselves if it means a man doesn’t get what he wants or may get hurt.

Fantastic flair :)

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

Seriously! I don’t even know how to respond to this. Do you have any idea how this reads for someone who has been raped (or anyone with empathy)? We don’t owe him shit. We just need to get away.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

Why would anyone help someone they stabbed? I don’t get it.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It’s okay to harm people as long as you make a show of slowing the bleeding.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

Because when you cause harm you have a responsibility to lessen it. That and the inherent value of human life?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

So is the rapist supposed to ice the vagina/anus of the person they raped and bandage any scraps from any fighting off?

Are you serious?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Well they are already morally failing because they are committing rape, but they have a moral imperative to ameliorate the harm they created as well. Morally they should turn themselves in so they don’t cause further harm and ensure that she doesn’t see them again to prevent trauma. They wouldn’t do that but they are also immoral anyway.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

I don’t think I can talk to you anymore, at least not right now. This is fucking disgusting.

Anyone who has been attacked knows to get the fuck away as fast as they can. It’s so incredibly fucked up to call someone immoral for protecting themselves and getting away from a dangerous situation.

You need some serious help. I say this with no snark and no intent to be rude or hurtful- please get help. ASAP. Like I’d pay for it myself if it didn’t mean doxing myself.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

This isn’t just because I don’t like masks, I honestly think they need to be banned permanently for this level of rape apology/rapist support.

There’s the usual tra misogyny, but this is a whole other level of hating women.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Calling 911 once you run isn’t endangering yourself at all. But still light save a life. How is that objectionable to you. I’ve been attacked, by a group no less. I still would have called 911 if I’d hurt one of them.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The life of the rapists who was raping me at knifepoint and planned to kill me once he was done is so valuable I should avoid seeking help for myself or protect myself further, and should instead provide first aid to the person who five minutes ago was going to gut me like a pig after R A P I N G M E.

Why is this rapists life so valuable that I should endanger mine? What makes this despicable man so much more important than the woman he has attacked?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Why is this rapists life so valuable that I should endanger mine? What makes this despicable man so much more important than the woman he has attacked?

He’s a male.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

DING DING DING My silly woman brain forgot that as a woman I’m supposed to be sweet and nurturing. It’s probably just feminine instinct to make sure a rapist isn’t too hurt because you’ve stabbed them to make them stop.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Calling 911 was on my list of things you could do to help. That doesn’t pose a danger.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Instead of getting myself help, after being raped, you really believe the welfare of the rapist should be my first concern?

Transwomen are in danger by being in the same room as another male but a woman is perfectly safe sitting in the alley with the man who raped her, calling an ambulance and patching up his goddamn arm? What the fuck? What dimension are you from where this is a realistic scenario? That is a sick idea and I sincerely hope you get immediate help.

Is the rapist expected to get me ice and bandages if I don’t stab him in self defense? Is he moral if he does this after RAPING me? According to your twisted dogma he is.

That’s so fucked up it requires a specialist to break down just how sick it is.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It is same ugly misogynistic logic when court enforced rape victim to call her rapist "she" on court, because she could hurt feelings of manly-looking manly-presenting rapist. It is just humiliation on victim and clear insanity.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never said it undid the wrong done, I said there was an obligation to ameliorate harm you make. If he was moral he wouldn’t be raping someone in the first place.