QT: A question of ideology

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (65 children)

You are still arguing for it. Whether you can vote on it isn’t material.

Trans women aren’t men. In body, in the way society treats them, power, all wildly disparate.

And no, if I stabbed someone, I’m not obliged to help them.

Then I consider you fundamentally a moral and there’s no point in further conversation

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

You can’t tackle my ideology in any capacity so yet again resort to blaming me personally and making up bizarre moral quandaries to judge me by as if it’s relevant or actually reflective of who I am.

I find you fundamentally misogynistic but I’m sure you’ll argue that my findings aren’t allowed but you’re free to call me fundamentally amoral over one extremely foolish question.

Should you gain the ability to argue the things actually important or relevant is maybe care about your dismissal. As it stands, your dismissal is a very thin veil for your total lack of actual arguments in favour of a round about ad hominem. Learn to argue mate.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

Of course stabbing someone is immoral but not helping them when you’ve injured them makes it worse.

If you can’t even agree that creating harm causes a moral obligation to cure it there is no way we can have an actual conversation about morality.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

You can’t have a conversation about morality with any disagreement. That’s on you and your closed mind.

For the rest of us, morals are complex, nuanced, and thankfully not a black and white dogma so thick that strangers can be called totally amoral over a single daft scenario.

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

For someone who says there is no further point to conversation you sure do bang on about your supposed moral superiority a lot. Notable that you once again ignore the parts of my comments where you can’t form an argument. This is such a tired method of showing your poor faith and poor debate skills.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm you caused.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

This is one of the worst things you’ve said in this sub. I can’t even say something snarky to you about it because what the actual fuck???? When I said on another post that you say things that scare me, I still didn’t expect you to say something like this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

So you defend yourself against an attacker and hurt them badly, you would just let them die? How does that not horrify you? You can’t just let people die.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I would call the police perhaps, but no I don’t think the safety of a fucking rapist who likely raped others as well as me would be my priority if I had to stab someone to protect myself.

Get some fucking help. ASAP. Please.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can’t just let the person who decided your life and body have no value die?! Maybe he was gonna call an ambo and hold your hand once he was finished shredding your anus and vagina apart and ejaculating in your eyes because you are an object to him. He’s a nice guy his life is valuable. :(

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You can honestly say you’d just let them die? How could you do that? I can’t fathom it.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Easily and gladly. That’s how I’d watch them die. Lmao imagine arguing this hard over the importance of saving your rapist before getting your own injuries tended to.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How could he rape me? And in order to rape me he would have had to cause harm to me to get me in a position to rape me. You don’t even know that the stab wound is deadly, it could have just hurt him enough to get him off of me but you don’t give a fuck- a male was hurt so naturally regardless of what that male did to me I have to do all I can to make sure he’s okay? Even though he just put me in extreme danger? I cannot believe we are actually having this conversation. It’s fucking insane.

I can’t fathom you telling a rape victim to tend to the wound she had to inflict to save herself. It’s such a slap in the face. You’re unbelievable.

There’s a story of this woman who wanted to kidnap someone’s unborn baby. She got the pregnant woman alone, and tried to cut her stomach open. The pregnant woman overpowered her and stabbed her so she could run away.

Should she, open wound and all, have first made sure her attacker was okay before she fled?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You clearly have exactly no understanding of what it’s like to be in any of those scenarios then.
Lmao someone in the midst of psychosis, someone who is literally experiencing a different reality, or a terrified child experiencing flashbacks to extreme violence is morally failing by not providing assistance.

A woman is a moral failure if she does not get help for the man who was raping her.

Sure, IM the one with questionable morals here. I’m beyond disgusted. Thanks for the new flair tho.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Not at all surprised that the response was “help your rapist if you stab them to stop the rape. It’s your moral duty.”

I had a split moment of “wait what the fuck are they saying” until I remembered who you were talking to. Sounds about right for masks, sadly- though a bit worse than I expected. Women aren’t allowed to protect themselves if it means a man doesn’t get what he wants or may get hurt.

Fantastic flair :)

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Masks seems like they will never move on from “women owe it to me to be my shield from evil men” but “women are morally obliged to help men who harm them” is a new development. Wish I was surprised but misogyny always leads to more misogyny, doesn’t it?

Seriously, tras hand me some truly fantastic quotes for flairs. Feminism is for whales was top tier from GB. This new one from masks is -chefs kiss- perfect summary of 97% of all tra talking points.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

For someone who claims men are evil and irredeemable it’s shocking to see them say that a rape victim should set aside their distress, possible danger, and any injuries they may have to save the evil men that masks hates so much. Look at what masks has said about men, only to tell us to put their well-being above our own even after they’ve directly attacked us. Unbelievable if it came from anyone else.

Sounds like masks hates women even more than masks hates men.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Imo masks hates women virulently and projects that hatred by claiming every single male who isn’t masks is a dangerous monster that women must bear the beatings from to protect masks.

Men are all evil, women are nothing but shields who owe their rapists or abusers medical attention, only masks is a moral and safe person to be around.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

Seriously! I don’t even know how to respond to this. Do you have any idea how this reads for someone who has been raped (or anyone with empathy)? We don’t owe him shit. We just need to get away.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

Why would anyone help someone they stabbed? I don’t get it.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It’s okay to harm people as long as you make a show of slowing the bleeding.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

Because when you cause harm you have a responsibility to lessen it. That and the inherent value of human life?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

So is the rapist supposed to ice the vagina/anus of the person they raped and bandage any scraps from any fighting off?

Are you serious?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Well they are already morally failing because they are committing rape, but they have a moral imperative to ameliorate the harm they created as well. Morally they should turn themselves in so they don’t cause further harm and ensure that she doesn’t see them again to prevent trauma. They wouldn’t do that but they are also immoral anyway.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

I don’t think I can talk to you anymore, at least not right now. This is fucking disgusting.

Anyone who has been attacked knows to get the fuck away as fast as they can. It’s so incredibly fucked up to call someone immoral for protecting themselves and getting away from a dangerous situation.

You need some serious help. I say this with no snark and no intent to be rude or hurtful- please get help. ASAP. Like I’d pay for it myself if it didn’t mean doxing myself.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

This isn’t just because I don’t like masks, I honestly think they need to be banned permanently for this level of rape apology/rapist support.

There’s the usual tra misogyny, but this is a whole other level of hating women.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I was thinking the same thing. I usually am fine or just mildly annoyed but this makes me really uncomfortable. I don’t know how I could engage with them after this. It’s too much.

But masks got banned when masks was masks (I believe for rape apologia but I could be wrong) and came back as Void so it may not do much.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I asked the mods to take a look and let me know if I’m just being over zealous or picking on them. I’m genuinely frightened by the attitude and ideas tho. I’ve never asked for a ban or inquiry for something that was just annoying or gross either, so I reckon it’s the right call.

The ban evasions must be heaps to handle. Unpleasant work indeed.

EDIT: apparently this is not rape apology or even close. Leaving the community if that’s the case. Bye y’all!!

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

If masks isn’t banned for this shit I may have to block them. I can’t believe this conversation. And I can’t believe I’m being told I’m morally reprehensible for not being willing to stay and tend to someone who raped me. It’s a fucking insane and terrifying level of misogyny disguised as concern for human life.

I have been stunned many times by things that Masks has said. But this is by far the worst to me.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Calling 911 once you run isn’t endangering yourself at all. But still light save a life. How is that objectionable to you. I’ve been attacked, by a group no less. I still would have called 911 if I’d hurt one of them.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I literally said I’d call the cops. After I ran away. Thing is, according to you that’s still immoral because the rapist could bleed out before the cops come so the victim immoral for running away or in danger for staying.

A life is a life but if someone is raping people and gets harmed in the process I don’t feel particularly bad for them. Don’t ever talk to rape survivors please. Stay far the fuck away from them.

And get some help. Seriously.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I literally said I’d call the cops. After I ran away.

That’s literally all I said you would need to do. Since it’s still ameliorating the harm.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The life of the rapists who was raping me at knifepoint and planned to kill me once he was done is so valuable I should avoid seeking help for myself or protect myself further, and should instead provide first aid to the person who five minutes ago was going to gut me like a pig after R A P I N G M E.

Why is this rapists life so valuable that I should endanger mine? What makes this despicable man so much more important than the woman he has attacked?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Why is this rapists life so valuable that I should endanger mine? What makes this despicable man so much more important than the woman he has attacked?

He’s a male.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

DING DING DING My silly woman brain forgot that as a woman I’m supposed to be sweet and nurturing. It’s probably just feminine instinct to make sure a rapist isn’t too hurt because you’ve stabbed them to make them stop.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Calling 911 was on my list of things you could do to help. That doesn’t pose a danger.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Instead of getting myself help, after being raped, you really believe the welfare of the rapist should be my first concern?

Transwomen are in danger by being in the same room as another male but a woman is perfectly safe sitting in the alley with the man who raped her, calling an ambulance and patching up his goddamn arm? What the fuck? What dimension are you from where this is a realistic scenario? That is a sick idea and I sincerely hope you get immediate help.

Is the rapist expected to get me ice and bandages if I don’t stab him in self defense? Is he moral if he does this after RAPING me? According to your twisted dogma he is.

That’s so fucked up it requires a specialist to break down just how sick it is.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It is same ugly misogynistic logic when court enforced rape victim to call her rapist "she" on court, because she could hurt feelings of manly-looking manly-presenting rapist. It is just humiliation on victim and clear insanity.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. Just male wants before female needs in a coat of progressive coloured paint.

Given the mods responses to me I’d recommend all women here move somewhere not moderated by males.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never said it undid the wrong done, I said there was an obligation to ameliorate harm you make. If he was moral he wouldn’t be raping someone in the first place.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do not want to listen to or see your defenses for claiming a woman owes her rapist help. Please cease contacting me for the rest of time.