Both: what is the source/origin of the claim "trans-womxyn are women"? The DSM-5/icd-11 don't make the claim, I can't find it anywhere within sociology or psychology, not even within queer theory. Is it just a hashtag?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

I always thought it was related to the concept of “gender identity”. Like, if they “identify” as a woman then they are one. But it doesn’t make sense at all lol.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

'Gender identity' was appropriated by the trans movement from sociology. In sociology a trans-woman's gender identity is male via socialisation, their attempts at re-socialisation reveal as much. Their eventual failure of escaping the gender they were conditioned to be (see my previous post on this sub) also reveals that it cannot be undone & redone differently.

It's the same way the movement appropriated 'assigned sex' from intersex disorders. No one's sex is assigned, except those whose sex is ambiguous.

All of this in order to appropriate the word 'woman'.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I know. I’m saying because they believe in gender identity that’s where I thought they took the leap to say TWAW. As in- “i identify as a woman, therefore I am a woman”. I don’t I agree with them, I was just answering the question. There are some who claim to be women despite no attempt at transition- because they “identify” as a woman. It’s all bullshit, it’s just where I always thought TWAW came from.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The movement refers to 'gender identity' in order to sound official, when it is actually referring to preferred sex or self identification. TRAs just monopolise the conversation & the more feminists that fall victim to their witch hunt the easier that becomes.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And even when sex is assigned to people with VSD - it is a medical malpractice, which is almost never happening anymore.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

'Gender identity' was appropriated by the trans movement from sociology.

Proof?

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender identity according to sociology:

"Socialization theory offers a straightforward account of the acquisition of gendered identities. Infants are seen as blank slates, waiting to be written down on by their environment [...]

[...] Reinforcement (through rewarding gender-appropriate behavior and punishing what may seem as deviant behavior) socializes children into their genders [...]

[...] For example, are far more likely to engage with their sons in rough physical play than they are with their daughters, and it has been argued that long-term consequences may follow (in this case, a head start for boys in the development of physical violence and aggressiveness) [...]

[...] These types of influences can include parental attitudes and difference of treatment regarding male and female children [...]

[...] A study of infants aged 13 months found that when boys demand attention - by behaving aggressively, or crying, whining or screaming - they tended to get it. By contrast, adults tended to respond to girls only when they used language, gestures, or gentle touches; girls who used attention-seeking techniques were likely ignored. There was little difference in the communicative patterns at the start of the study, but by the age of two, the girls have become more talkative and boys more assertive in their communicative techniques"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_gender#Gender_and_socialization

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

So you assert that male socialization is inescapable and that men are a constant threat then? Given that male socialization is inevitably anti trans, do you the accept that trans women need to be protected from men?

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

lol all men need to be protected from men. Does that make them women? Given that male socialisation is *invariably homophobic, do you then accept that gay men need to be protected from men?

What form should this "protection" take? Chanting "gay men are women" & advocating for their inclusion in women's sports, prisons, medicine, shelters etc?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

lol all men need to be protected from men. Does that make them women?

Trans women aren’t men but yes, straight cis men are brutal animals who can’t be trusted.

Given that male socialisation is *invariably homophobic, do you then accept that gay men need to be protected from men?

Yes.

What form should this "protection" take? Chanting "gay men are women" & advocating for their inclusion in women's sports, prisons, medicine, shelters etc?

Protective rights. Protective housing in prison. Dedicated medical and community resources.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Trans women aren’t men

Citation needed.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

It’s a semantic question. You can’t just cite to a study. It’s definitional.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Why are you so sure that they aren't men? You must have a reason. What source are you drawing from when you say that trans-womxyn aren't men?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Because we treat “man” as having a social component. We tell someone to “be a man” and it implies a behavioral command. Common usage includes a behavioral component. Male has no such implication.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

But where is this elusive definition you keep eluding to? The "social component" of 'man' is called masculinity, or a masculine gender role. You keep saying "definitional" while stressing connotation. The connotation of the word 'man' is: one with a masculine identity. The denotation of 'man' is adult, human & male – that's what 'man' is "definitionally".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It’s a semantic question. Source is irrelevant. Why do I know it’s wrong to hurt people? Why do I know that the moon is pretty? I know and quibbling over definitions won’t change it.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If the source is irrelevant then the source's definition is irrelevant. You compared it to the moon being pretty – if it's as irrelevant as that then why deny so vehemently that trans-womxyn are men? Trans-womxyn being men is comparable to the moon being a natural satellite, not being pretty.