QT/All: Why exactly should we accept non-binary people and validate their identity?

submitted by IceColdLover from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]IceColdLover[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I take the transmedicalist "truscum" view of who is trans. Discontent with societal gender roles and mere desires to be the opposite sex because of them are both entirely irrelevant to me and do not compel me that your self-ID should be validated.

If someone does not have dysphoria, then their discontent when I refuse to validate their feelings is an issue that can be fixed through therapy and evaluation for narcissistic personality disorder, and threats of suicide are nothing more than mental manipulation.

If you have a mentally pressing, immutable feeling that your body should be that of the opposite sex and it causes you to be so discontent with continuing to live as your birth sex that you feel an immediate need to transition otherwise an inability to go on, you are trans and I will respect your pronouns, chosen name, etc. out of compassion.

[–]slushpilot 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Right—but to your point, "non-binary" isn't even "trans". I don't think there is a "transmed" argument for non-binary unless we mean intersex.

Or else, what is this "non-binary dysphoria" and what is it rooted in.

[–]DistantGlimmer 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

There was someone on the old sub who claimed to have dysphoria for both sexes and be non-binary because of this. Hard to understand but I guess it is a thing with some people.

Quite sure with the vast majority of them it is just a fashion trendy thing though and a way for males to claim they opt-out of privilege.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I am nonbinary and my white male privilege is just fine. I am sick of all the grievance farming. I am the one who knocks.

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Do you see yourself as having dysphoria for both sexes?

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I would rather have been born female, but the realisation that I would have then wanted to remove my female reproductive tract was part of my understanding that I was nonbinary and not a trans woman. So yes, I imagine that I would have also had dysphoria if I had been born female. Whether I would have felt differently in reality, who knows? shrug

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I would rather have been born female, but the realisation that I would have then wanted to remove my female reproductive tract was part of my understanding that I was nonbinary and not a trans woman

And what about majority of modern transwomen, who don't want surgery and saying they are women with penises and do not want to have female reproductive organs just like you? Are they in reality just non-binary, but because of all this confusion with queer theory, just confused to call themself as trans instead?

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There is no technology to give trans women female reproductive organs; surgeons can only craft a neovagina. Vaginoplasty is dangerous, painful, and expensive. Most trans women get enough bodily changes to get by with oestrogen alone. I do not think this makes them nonbinary.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Then what the difference, if in everything, but how they call themselves and severity of dysphoria, those two categories are identical? Only in the way they want everyone else to perceive them?

[–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would say that the entire difference is gender identity: how someone perceives themself. Likewise gender identity is the only difference between a trans woman and a cis man. The reverse problem also arises with effeminate men who can be mistaken for women.

Only in the way they want everyone else to perceive them?

And here you have the core of the problem: not gender identity, but one's wish to change the way in which one is treated in our gendered society, and in which gendered spaces one is accepted. This can apply to all people, both cis and trans. Gender expression is a performance indicating which gendered space into which one would like to be accepted. How different would our lives be if we had no gender segregation and did not care so much what others thought of us?