Does GC feminism include trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Most branches of feminism include transwomen.

Most I've seen are not including them actually. However, that depends on what you are calling as feminism.

IMO people get discriminated on their gender presentation instead of sex.

Last year there was a case when one transwoman pre-srugery raped transman with intent to "make queer kids". So no, discrimination is based on sex.

Gender presentation and gender stereotypes are consequences of that discrimination. If you will present as woman and pass as woman, you will be discriminated like woman, but that will be based on assumption that you are female with all the sex differences and ability to make birth. And you will still be missing a lot of discrimination, like tampon tax, low amount of researches on female-only diseases, missing laws about pregnancy, anti-abortion laws, lack of good women's toilets good enough to change menstrual cup or tampons, rape risks are different as well, and so on (and if speaking about 2nd or 3rd world countries, then there much more sexism based on biological sex, like menstruation huts, for example). So you will feel only direct sexism, aimed directly by people, but not the sexism aimed at females as a class and as a biological sex by whole society, not by individuals. Here by "you" I am speaking about some abstract person, not about you personally. Sorry offended somehow by that.

My dad has the same gait as my sister

It is impossible because of the bone structure, females can't move legs straight, our joints are just connected differently to bones, especially around pelvis. Most likely you just don't know on what to look, or maybe it is me, who is too focused on women and too thirsty ;)

Yes, FTMs become gay.

They are staying straight, as they were before. Your own sexuality is not changing. If I can have some agreement that looks can deceive homosexual if transgender person is passing well, but your own sexuality is not changing. The only thing that will change is how you together is perceived by society. However, sexuality is not "how someone else sees you". If it was like that majority of women would be bisexuals.

It's not homophobia

It is. And it is same that I've heard million times. Especially part that some lesbians are attracted to handsome or feminine men and their penises I've heard this hundreds of times aimed to me or other lesbians. This time it is not different.

Some homosexual people are attracted to people who are trans of their gender

Sexuality does not work like that. Even if someone is passing well, lesbian can't be aroused by transwoman when everything is seen, even after surgery it is pretty hard to achieve. However, for some reason majority of transwomen who are having genital cosmetic surgeries are into men, while transwomen who are into lesbians - almost all leaving penises intact and not using heavy blockers, so they are staying functional. And no lesbian can be aroused by penis ever, if women does - she is bisexual, as simple as that.

And lets not forget, that transwomen does not actually have clit and that male body have different erogenic zones, that they do not have periods and so they do not have hormonal changes and big arousements during menstruation.

And that transmen does not have prostate, "balls" and functional penis that can retract and increase/decrease in sizes like a real penis.

Depends on the job of the surgeon.

For transmen, no surgeon can replicate looks and functionality of penis. For transwomen at least looks can be replicated (but not the feel, and not all the important spots, and not the inner part - even good ones are nothing like a real pussy, their scent is very different as well) - and that is if surgeon is supergood. I'd say most straight men would not see the difference, lol. Not the lesbian, tho.

I have personal experience with majority of things I am talking about.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Most I've seen are not including them actually. However, that depends on what you are calling as feminism.

r/feminism, r/askfeminists, the feminists on BabyCenter and all my feminist former professors included trans women in their feminism.

Most I've seen are not including them actually. However, that depends on what you are calling as feminism.

One case. Can you link to it please?

Gender presentation and gender stereotypes are consequences of that discrimination. If you will present as woman and pass as woman, you will be discriminated like woman, but that will be based on assumption that you are female with all the sex differences and ability to make birth. And you will still be missing a lot of discrimination, like tampon tax, low amount of researches on female-only diseases, missing laws about pregnancy, anti-abortion laws, lack of good women's toilets good enough to change menstrual cup or tampons, rape risks are different as well, and so on (and if speaking about 2nd or 3rd world countries, then there much more sexism based on biological sex, like menstruation huts, for example). So you will feel only direct sexism, aimed directly by people, but not the sexism aimed at females as a class and as a biological sex by whole society, not by individuals. Here by "you" I am speaking about some abstract person, not about you personally. Sorry offended somehow by that.

That’s why I include trans women in my feminism. I include trans men

It is impossible because of the bone structure, females can't move legs straight, our joints are just connected differently to bones, especially around pelvis. Most likely you just don't know on what to look, or maybe it is me, who is too focused on women and too thirsty ;

Maybe.

They are staying straight, as they were before. Your own sexuality is not changing. If I can have some agreement that looks can deceive homosexual if transgender person is passing well, but your own sexuality is not changing. The only thing that will change is how you together is perceived by society.

Nope they become gay men, and lesbians become straight.

However, sexuality is not "how someone else sees you". If it was like that majority of women would be bisexuals.

29% of lesbians include trans women in their dating pool, and they’re still lesbian.

It is. And it is same that I've heard million times. Especially part that some lesbians are attracted to handsome or feminine men and their penises I've heard this hundreds of times aimed to me or other lesbians. This time it is not different.

Some lesbians are attracted to trans women, even if they have a penis. Is this a problem?

Sexuality does not work like that. Even if someone is passing well, lesbian can't be aroused by transwoman when everything is seen, even after surgery it is pretty hard to achieve. However, for some reason majority of transwomen who are having genital cosmetic surgeries are into men, while transwomen who are into lesbians - almost all leaving penises intact and not using heavy blockers, so they are staying functional. And no lesbian can be aroused by penis ever, if women does - she is bisexual, as simple as that.

I have personally been attracted to passing trans men.

[–]florasis 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

If someone includes males in dating pool, they're bisexuals, not lesbians. A lesbians is an homosexual women, lack of attraction to opposite sex. A lot of bisexuals call themselves lesbians. And anyway, I saw a survey saying that the majority of lesbians willing to date trans, were talking about transmen, ergo females like them

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

29% of lesbians include transwomen in their dating pool.

[–]florasis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Where is the data from? And I repeat, they're not real lesbians, they're bisexuals. Whoever inclused males in dating pool isn't a lesbian.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

This study.

[–]florasis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Also said " 38% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they wouldn’t date a trans woman"

Anyway, the one who seriously are fine with dating males, and not just saying it to appear political correct aren't homosexual, but bisexuals, ergo not lesbians. We real lesbians, aka homosexual females, are physically incapable of being attracted to opposite sexual characteristics.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is actually a big problem with lesbian-porn popularisation - in many lesbian spaces bisexual women are calling themselves lesbians, even if they are dating man right now and just want fast hook up with a woman.

[–]florasis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah. And then you see ridicolous stat about lesbians liking dicks. It's delusional crap

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We real lesbians, aka homosexual females, are physically incapable of being attracted to opposite sexual characteristics.

Well they aren't attracted to most opposite sex characteristics. That's what sexuality means.

[–]florasis 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Homosexuality means not attraction to opposite sex characteristics at all, not just some characteristics and not the others. And sex organs are primary sex charateristics Not homosexual female in the world is attracted to opposite male organs. It's the opposite of homosexuality.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I disagree with your definition of homosexuality, but oh well. We have different definitions of homosexuality.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Some lesbians are attracted to trans women, even if they have a penis. Is this a problem?

29% of lesbians include trans women in their dating pool, and they’re still lesbian.

Nope they become gay men, and lesbians become straight.

The level of conversion therapy is insane. Even conservatives weren't as homophobic, lol. Maybe only in Iran.

And "your sexuality depends on someone else" is just golden. From where is 29% number btw?

I don't think I want to continue discussion on this topic, as it hurts (if only anyone was actually thinking about lesbian women feelings, eh).

I have personally been attracted to passing trans men.

In bed, sexually? And you was all wet when seeing pussy? (Edit: Oh, sorry, I actually assumed you are female/woman, maybe you aren't, now I am confused)

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The level of conversion therapy is insane. Even conservatives weren't as homophobic, lol. Maybe only in Iran.

Lol who is converting you? No one is forcing you to become bi or straight.

And "your sexuality depends on someone else" is just golden. From where is 29% number btw?

This study.

In bed, sexually? And you was all wet when seeing pussy? (Edit: Oh, sorry, I actually assumed you are female/woman, maybe you aren't, now I am confused)

I am a woman who was born female. I am straight. I am attracted to cis men and passing trans men. For me to do something sexually with their genitals they have to be post-op otherwise I'm still willing to do sexual things that don't involve their genitals. I'm not attracted to cis women and passing trans women.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is just asking around, asked 1000 people, half of which were men and half women, part of which were bisexual, part gay men, part lesbian women, part queer (whatever that means). So it isn't that many people. And questions "who would you rather date" is not "are you attracted to X?". I thought there was some serious research, or at least proper questions.

For example, 50% of the trans-inclusive straight women and 28% of the trans-inclusive gay men were willing to date a trans woman, even though one wouldn’t expect either straight women or gay men to be attracted to women. Similarly, 50% of trans-inclusive straight men and 69% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they’d date a trans man, even though both groups are presumably only attracted to women.

Not surprising at all :D

I am straight. I am attracted to cis men and passing trans men. For me to do something sexually with their genitals they have to be post-op otherwise I'm still willing to do sexual things that don't involve their genitals.

And that is expected as well. I know cases when men were aroused by looking at someone with long hair from behind - and when that person turning around and revealing it is just masculine guy, just with good hair, then those men were instantly stopping being aroused. It is normal behaviour. And when judging just by the looks I can like the looks of a man too, and recognize if man is attractive to other women or not, but I will never be aroused by one.