Why is GC critical of how women celebrate their sexuality?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Idk anything about cardi b so I'm missing a lot of context here just fyi. But in general, I think women often face this dilemma between freedom of individual expression vs doing things that aren't necessarily good for us because it has become ingrained by society. When it comes to sexuality, where's the line between self expression and objectification? Just because a woman chooses to sexualize herself, doesn't mean its empowering. Women choose things that are bad for us all the time, we've been taught by society to do this. But by the same token, restricting women from expressing ourselves isn't very feminist either. Its tough to find the right balance, but I don't think going hard in either direction is a great idea.

I'll also add that, as a lesbian, I'm kinda lucky in this regard. Because lesbian sexuality excludes men, I think its theoretically easier for us to express our sexuality without objectifying ourselves to men. One of the silver linings to being a lesbian I guess lol.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think if you'd read the lyrics, you'd be different opinion. However, you better don't, to not lose faith in humanity.

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lol, maybe so. I've never been particularly interested in her music, so I probably won't listen to it haha.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Me too, but I've read lyrics and checked video, when discussion was raised on /s/GenderCritical.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Just because a woman chooses to sexualize herself, doesn't mean its empowering.

It's not empowering to you, but it's empowering to her and that's what matters. Maybe she finds it empowering because she can freely express her sexuality without being told she doesn't value herself or whatever? That's her right. You don't have to like her music or her video, or do the same things she does. Only she can decide what's empowering to herself.

[–]FlanJam 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

With all due respect I think you're misreading what I wrote. Like I said, idk much about cardi b. I don't dislike her music or video because I've never seen it. Nor am I criticizing her or accusing her of sexualizing herself. I'm speaking very generally about the broader topic. I'm just saying its more complicated than simply saying "expressing sexuality is bad" OR "you can't criticize her choice because its her choice". As I mentioned in my previous post, finding a balance is tricky and there's no easy answer.

But since you brought it up, I do wanna speak briefly about this point:

It's not empowering to you, but it's empowering to her and that's what matters. ... Only she can decide what's empowering to herself.

Perhaps we're speaking past each other because we seem to be using "empowering" differently. When I say empowering, I'm talking about something that gives you more agency in society. For example, having an education is typically empowering because it gives you more opportunities. So under my usage of empowering, what's empowering to me IS empowering to others as well. Because things that are empowering are objectively so. The way you're using "empowering" seems to be different, which is fine, but I think perhaps that's where some confusion is coming from.

[–]lavender_menace 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I say empowering, I'm talking about something that gives you more agency in society. For example, having an education is typically empowering because it gives you more opportunities. So under my usage of empowering, what's empowering to me IS empowering to others as well.

That’s my understanding of empowering as well. Empowerment also has ties to groups or communities imho. If it benefits or elevates a group of people it’s empowering. It gives them power. Like when women fought for 30 years to have public toilets for women as well, that was empowering because it gave women freedom from the “urinary leash” enabling them to travel further from their homes. Prostitution doesn’t empower women, it may benefit some tiny portion of individuals, who are capable of choosing their own clients and doing it on their own terms every single time, but to the majority prostitution is exploitation, that robs them of power and physical and mental resources.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think it’s possible for people to feel empowered by things that are bad? Or is anything empowering good?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And what about all the women who are not empowered by this one woman’s feelings? What about the girls who see this woman “celebrate sexuality” via pandering to male gaze and normalising sex in exchange for goods? Is she also empowered by the message “prostitution is nifty fun!”?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

All that matters is Cardi B is empowered. I also know many women who say they feel empowered by this. Though if a woman doesn't feel empowered, she is free not to listen to Cardi B or sing those songs.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So the little girls who receive a disempowering message don’t matter cause cardi says she’s empowered. Lol righto. Im sure prostituted women are super empowered by songs about trading sex for goods as well.