Bing AI is only creating these cartoon-y people now instead of more realistic looking images

submitted by Musky from midi.moe

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[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

The best we can hope for

Is a post scarcity world explored in Star Trek. AI is a tool, but unlike you a useful tool. A very powerful tool that will force multiply everyone's efforts. It levels the playing field between the haves and have nots, under the condition that it is available to everyone.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Is a post scarcity world explored in Star Trek.

Oh good, we're using science fiction as a guide to real life 🙄

Star Trek didn't "explore" post-scarcity, it just assumed it as a base state, to be ignored when needed for a plot. And its not even really clear how much "post-scarcity" the Star Trek universe is, and how much is post-capitalism and post-greed. Certainly the Federation was post-capitalism and stopped using money before they invented matter replicators.

Let's come back to real life. Do you have any idea how to transition from a globalist capitalism economic system that requires constant economic growth to satisfy the insatiable greed of the elites to a post-scarcity world? So-called "AI" is not a magic wand. How precisely is it supposed to usher in that transition? Starting from a world run by elites who have made it absolutely clear for decades now that protecting corporate profits and shareholder value is far more important than full employment, housing, health or national sovereignty?

AI doesn't give us "post-scarcity":

  • Physical resources -- energy, water, raw materials -- will not suddenly jump into existence because you give ChatGTP the right prompt 🙄
  • Manufactured goods still need to be manufactured. Even if robots could do all the work, the robots won't be free, and will require maintenance that won't be free either.
  • Desirable land remains scarce. AI won't magically quadruple the area of New York or Tokyo, or give Afghanistan access to the sea.
  • Time remains scarce. There are only so many hours in a day, and AI cannot increase the amount of time you have.
  • Most of all, attention is scarce. The internet increased the number of voices clamouring for attention by ten thousand fold. AI will increase it by a thousand million fold, making attention even more scarce and even harder to get.

It levels the playing field between the haves and have nots, under the condition that it is available to everyone.

So that would be, it "levels the playing field" between the haves and the other haves 😒

The have-nots miss out, otherwise they wouldn't be the have-nots.

So-called AI is not a force for levelling the playing field. It is a force to eliminate the need for human creativity and make turn it into a commodity, and to make 99.9% of humanity surplus to requirements. Its not going to eliminate drudge work, or physically dangerous jobs. It will just ensure that there are a thousand desperate people for every job available.

I just hope I live long enough to see every single one of those tech bros who love AI so much get put out of work by their AIs. Why hire a programmer or a sys admin when an AI will do a more consistent job and never ask for days off?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

and how much is post-capitalism

The only thing that is post capitalism is totalitarian dictatorship, mass poverty for most and total opulence for the few. There is nothing about Star Trek that is post capitalism.

Certainly the Federation was post-capitalism and stopped using money before they invented matter replicators.

Not using money is not "post capitalism". As long as you own the product of the replicator and can do with it as you want then it is a capitalist society. Owning things is capitalism. It means you can barter, save, and gain access to resources without an authorities permission.

You have been brainwashed into believing that capitalism is what creates scarcity. That is just wrong.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The only thing that is post capitalism is totalitarian dictatorship, mass poverty for most and total opulence for the few.

All those things have occurred before the invention of capitalism, and they continue to exist under capitalism too. You just need to look at the United States to see extreme poverty and opulence side by side.

Owning things is capitalism.

Are you smoking crack? High on fentanyl? Owning personal property is not "capitalism".

Owning things goes back to Ugg the cave man, who had his own rawhide shirt that he and he alone wore.

Capitalism is an economic system where individuals, the capitalists, own the means of production rather than the people who actually use it to create things. A blacksmith who owns his forge is not a capitalist. A man who owns a forge and hires a blacksmith for wages is.

Capitalism does not exist without capital, and developed as an economic system from mercantilism, during the 16th to 18th centuries.

Post-capitalist systems could include things as basic as worker cooperatives, where the factory is owned by the workers, or something as hypothetical and pie-in-the-sky as Star Trek's post-scarcity, money-less imaginary world. There is a good argument that we're already living in a post-capital world, at least in the west, where so-called "financial capitalism" has taken over from industrial capitalism. Since financial capitalism has little to do with actual capital, the name is a misnomer and is best considered a particularly toxic form of post-capitalism where the power has moved from governments and capitalists to bankers and financial traders who get rich, not from making things, but from financial speculation.

We've been taken over by the financial speculators who get rich from closing down factories, not from making things. And this is why the entire western world, some 35 countries or more, cannot make as many artillery shells in a year as Russia can make in a month. But I digress.

There is nothing about Star Trek that is post capitalism.

Have you even watched Star Trek?

Especially Next Generation, where Gene Roddenberry was explicit about the Federation moving past such petty concerns as money and capitalism, and contrasted them with the hyper-capitalist Ferengi, who were intended to be the Big Bad but were drawn too comically for audiences to take them seriously as a threat.

You have been brainwashed into believing that capitalism is what creates scarcity.

I don't believe capitalism creates scarcity.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Capitalism is an economic system where individuals, the capitalists, own the means of production

Because they built or bought them. Their right to own the things they build and by extention barter with their property IS capitalism.

The twisted, perverted Marxist take on that which you have been brainwashed with to facilitate the destruction of western countries is not "the real capitalism". The core concept is private property and freedom. Everything else flows from that.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Post-capitalist systems could include things as basic as worker cooperatives,

Wrong. You can have a cooperative under capitalism.

You CAN'T have a cooperative under socialism or communism because the workers are not allowed to own their own buisness. The "society" owns it collectively which in effect means that the few people who control that society own all of it.

Under socialism the government can seize any buisness no matter how small or big, from farms to monopolies. They do it "for the greater good" which is nothing more than propaganda.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because they built or bought them.

Or inherited it, or stole it, or won it in a bet, or bribed the government to seize it and sell it for 1% of its actual value, or leased it from a bank that actually owns it, or from a king or the state.

Their right to own the things they build and by extention barter with their property IS capitalism.

No it isn't. That is property rights which existed for thousands of years before capitalism was invented, or Adam Smith was a gleam in his daddy's eye.

Not only aren't property rights the same as capitalism, but capitalism doesn't even require universal property rights. You could have a neo-capitalist system almost identical to today's system where everything is owned by the State, or a king, and given a long-term lease to the capitalists who run the factories.

Why do you think the WEF's dream is to move to a system where ordinary people like you and I will no longer own anything? Even Marx and Lenin allowed individuals to keep their personal property (things like a tradesman's tools, or your own clothes, or your toothbrush). The ultimate aim of 21st century capitalism is to move everything to a subscription model where we own nothing but rent it from the companies who own everything.

Why sell a toothbrush for $3 when you can charge 99 cents a month for access to iTooth brushing service? As soon as they figure out a way to offer toothbrushing as a service over the internet, you better believe they will try to convince people its better to pay a monthly subscription than a one-off cost to own your own toothbrush.

The core concept is private property and freedom.

Capitalism doesn't require "freedom" for everyone, in fact it thrives on slavery and near-slavery. German capitalists were happy to use slave labour provided by the Wehrmacht during WW2, by 1945 a full 25% of the German workforce were literal slaves working for capitalist corporations like Bayer and Volkswagon.

Or the US and prison labour. The US uses the prison system as a source of cheap unfree labour. They don't even try to hide it, they're proud of it.

Capitalists love to take away freedom from others. Their ideal world would be one where their workforce are slaves, or near slaves, and they have a monopoly on a product which all consumers must have and would be willing to pay any price to get.

you have been brainwashed

😂

You have no idea what capitalism is, you think it is the sanitised cartoon version is "capitalism", your attitude towards the realities of capitalism is 🙈 🙉 🙊 even when the capitalists tell you explicitly that you will own nothing and be happy and you think it is me that has been brainwashed.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Or inherited it, or stole it, or won it in a bet

Inherited is the same as built because if your father built it and handed it down to you that is functionally the same. No one stole their business, that is some contrived leftist bullshit. If someone won it in a bet, that is equally inconsequentially rare. So if you have to resort to this kind of "hur dur this exception disproves the rule" bullshit you already lost the argument. You are no longer trying to have a good faith argument. You lost and are desperately trying to save face with any nonsense you can pretend is an argument.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if your father built it and handed it down to you that is functionally the same.

"I worked hard for my business empire!"

"No you didn't son, you spent all your time screwing hookers and losing money at the casino while getting rich off investments you could only afford because of the business empire I built."

The bottom line here is that you have no idea what capitalism actually is, or how it developed after the 16th century, but you fetishise it as "Capitalism Good". Capitalism isn't trade, it has nothing to do with the free market (you should read what Adam Smith has to say), and it is especially nothing to do with ownership of personal property.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Do you have any idea how to transition from a globalist capitalism economic system that requires constant economic growth to satisfy the insatiable greed of the elites to a post-scarcity world?

Empower people with technology. That's literally it. Empower people to become independent of that system.

How precisely is it supposed to usher in that transition?

It empowers people.

So that would be, it "levels the playing field" between the haves and the other haves 😒

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It always kills the good and you end up with shit. As long as AI is publicly available the "other haves" will account for 90% of the world. That's pretty fucking good.

So-called AI is not a force for levelling the playing field

It absolutely is. This is a very ignorant statement. I hope you figure that out soon.

It is a force to eliminate the need for human creativity and make turn it into a commodity,

Nope. It augments human creativity. It amplifies it.

Its not going to eliminate drudge work, or physically dangerous jobs.

It will greatly reduce both. If frees up manpower to solve those problems. It empowers everyone to contribute to the solutions. Anyone with an idea will be able to create 3d renderings of their solution, test it, iterate on it, and have it produced in China. Currently only some tiny fraction, of a fraction of people are legitimately capable of doing that.

OSHA, regulations and job safety improve when society becomes prosperous. AI will greatly improve productivity which greatly improves prosperity.

and to make 99.9% of humanity surplus to requirements.

It will free up 99.9% of humanity to do whatever they want. That means overthrowing the kleptocrats. Therefore the kleptocrats won't sit on mountains of gold and allow for high unemployment. If they could allow for things to get worse than they already are then things would already be worse. They monitor everything you do and know exactly how far they can push everyone before there is a revolution.

Why hire a programmer or a sys admin when an AI will do a more consistent job and never ask for days off.

Right now only the wealthy can afford to pay a programmer. I asked on Reddit how much I can expect to pay someone to build a basic website where my family can build a family tree. I got quotes of $10k and dozens of people bullshitting me with shit like "it's not simple". Meanwhile there is already free software available to do it and anyone with any experience building a website should be able to do it in an hour. It is not just the wealthy who are greedy fucks. Everyone is.

That is why any tool that empowers everyone is a godsend.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I asked on Reddit how much I can expect to pay someone to build a basic website where my family can build a family tree. I got quotes of $10k and dozens of people bullshitting me with shit like "it's not simple". Meanwhile there is already free software available to do it and anyone with any experience building a website should be able to do it in an hour.

Ah yes, everything is easy for the person who doesn't have to do the work 🙄

"a basic website where my family can build a family tree." -- dude that sort of dynamic web application is not in the same galaxy as a "basic website". The webtrees open source genealogy web app is about 80 thousand lines of PHP code, plus dozens of assorted other files (javascript, CSS, icons, etc). So something a quarter as complete and functional as Webtrees would be about 20 thousand lines of code. "Basic website" my ass.

A good professional developer averages about 10 lines of thoroughly tested, debugged and documented code per day. That number comes from the days of Algol programming, so let's say that PHP coders are ten times more productive. (They're not, but let's pretend they are.) So to build your "basic website" would take around 200 days work. Let's say you hire a rockstar who is five times more productive than the average PHP dev (dream on), and he can do it in 40 eight hour days, and he only charges $30 an hour (yeah right). There's almost $10K right there.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

🤣🤣🤣 you must be a dev with bullshit like that.

Webtrees is already built. No one ever said I was looking for a comparable program written from scratch. Strawman bullshit.

You all use the same retarded arguments. When I say "simple" you pretend I am saying that I want some complicated thing and only think that it is simple, then go on to discribe how that complicated thing is not simple. That's so stupid. When I say simple I mean don't put in all that complicated bullshit.

You can make it simple if you want. Stop lying. Stop adding shit that I never asked for to make up an argument for why it is complicated.

It is literally buttons that can be aranged into row and colums according to relationship, and hyperlinking to a text file with more info about the person. Fuckn simple.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No one ever said I was looking for a comparable program written from scratch.

Er, you said you asked how much it would cost to "build a basic website where my family can build a family tree", not "how much to install Webtrees and all its dependencies on a web server I already have".

It is literally buttons that can be aranged into row and colums according to relationship, and hyperlinking to a text file with more info about the person. Fuckn simple.

As I said, everything is simple to the clown who doesn't have to do it. If it's so "fuckn simple" why don't you program it yourself? Then you'll learn just how simple it really is.

By the way, "buttons that can be aranged into row and colums according to relationship, and hyperlinking to a text file" does not come even close to describing a genealogy program, not even a simple one. Have you never even seen a family tree? Relationships can be complicated but even when they're not complicated it's still a tree not a grid of rows and columns. Sheesh.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Er, you said you asked how much it would cost to "build a basic website where my family can build a family tree", not "how much to install Webtrees and all its dependencies on a web server I already have".

Once again, read this over and over until you understand: I am not looking for a program comparable to webtrees.

Your response indicates you don't understand what that means and I don't know how to explain it to you. Just read it over and over until you understand why the response you posted is nonsensical.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't know how to explain it to you.

That's because you don't have a clue what you want. You don't want a ready-made solution (Webtrees), you don't want a custom-made solution because its too expensive, you want something that allows people to go to a website and record family trees and genealogies (ie a genealogy program) without it being a genealogy program. That's like saying you want something where you can roast and bake food but not an oven. Or somewhere you can stand under a shower of water to wash but not a shower or a camp-shower.

You have zero understanding what is involved in building a dynamic website, zero clue about what sort of features you want, and yet you are sure that its just an hour's work.

I reckon a consultant web application developer would need to spend about 4 or 5 hours with you just to nut out the core functional requirements, and even then, you'll end up changing your mind once you start using it.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's because you don't have a clue what you want.

A simple web app where anyone can add names to a tree.

If that description makes you say "that's not simple" you are either stupid of full of shit. I am asking for something simple. The fact that devs who claim it isn't simple try to justify that claim by listing all the complicated shit they want to add only proves that they are shisters. I don't want any of that "functionality" I want something simple. If YOU don't know how to make a simple program that is YOU problem. You are either stupid or inexperienced.

zero clue about what sort of features you want,

There is that bullshit again. You just want to tak on all kinds of extra shit to claim it is complicated, then claim I want that shit. Fuck off. I was very clear about what I want. You just dont like that it is a very very short list.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A simple web app where anyone can add names to a tree.

So the business about "hyperlinking to a text file with more info about the person" is no longer part of the requirements. Good, because allowing random people to upload random files to a webserver without taking precautions is an astonishingly risky thing to do.

So, anyone at all? No authentication? You'll be happy to allow random trolls half way around the world to add random text into your tree? Cool.

You're happy to have no data validation? So people can hack your website by adding, say, 15GB of text to the tree as one single name, cause a buffer overflow, and hijack the computer? Nice.

"Oh that's not what I mean, of course you need to work out how to do it safely and reliably, and avoid network errors and data corruption even if the internet connection is lost halfway through an edit, and make sure the data in the tree doesn't get corrupted, and include some sort of user authentication, and all the other things which I haven't even thought of. How hard could it be?"

This tree... is it supposed to be displayed as a family tree, or just dumped as a block of undifferentiated text?

"Of course it has to be displayed as a proper tree, and look good even when the window resizes or if the user doesn't have the right fonts. It doesn't need to work on a mobile phone, just desktop, because I know that's about 100 times more difficult. Oh also don't worry about making it work on all common browsers, everyone can use Internet Explorer and like it."

If YOU don't know how to make a simple program that is YOU problem. You are either stupid or inexperienced.

Since you're so smart and know so much more than actual web developers, you should just do it yourself. Surely you've spent more time bitching about this than it would take a genius like you to actually program it.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

does not come even close to describing a genealogy program,

No shit shirlock. And I keep telling you I never asked anyone for a geneology program. You just keep talking as if I had.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How precisely is it supposed to usher in that transition?

It empowers people.

That answer is the very opposite of "precisely". "Empower" is an airy-fairy buzzword that means nothing practical, much beloved by marketroids and hippies.

It is a force to eliminate the need for human creativity and make turn it into a commodity,

Nope. It augments human creativity. It amplifies it.

Dude. Dude. Think. The whole point of AI is that you don't need humans to be creative. You want a poem? You don't need to hire a poet, you just say to Bard or ChatGTP "write me a poem". You want a movie script? You don't need writers.

This first generation of AI is not very creative. But give it ten years and pretty much all forms of written creative works will be decimated. Robots will be doing the art, and people will be doing the messy, dangerous, ugly work that robots can't do.

Anyone with an idea will be able to create 3d renderings of their solution, test it, iterate on it, and have it produced in China.

And China is making these things for free, is it? How do you pay for it when your income is gone because your job has been replaced by a bot?

It will free up 99.9% of humanity to do whatever they want. That means overthrowing the kleptocrats.

The kleptocrats will be the only ones able to afford police and soldiers. 99.9% of people "freed up" (out of work) will only be able to throw stones and die.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The kleptocrats will be the only ones able to afford police and soldiers.

😄 sounds like a lot of paychecks to me. How many will they need to hire to keep the entire population controlled?