Thanks for your thoughtful reply and it brings up a fun memory = I was sentenced to 2 fives back to back meaning I had to do the whole 1st 5 before any good time applied to the 2nd 5. During my first few years since I was attending U of W Seattle on an Engineering degree when arrested I applied for their satellite classes they offered at Monroe. Also during that time I was asked by quite a few who got to know me "would you teach me how to read and write and be able to do some math" and within months I had a regular classroom set up with those who really did want something besides their senior year of 3rd grade. Some of them pretty scary but they could not read or write or do simple math just fractions and how to change a dollar. I gained my BEng in 1982 and all this noted by Parole Board. The kicked me out to a prison camp of fighting fire and planting trees where I did another year then kicked out to Parole House where I was stuck for about 6 months then out for good. Here's the funny part = at each location I was locked up I told a few about my plans on kickout and was admonished "o no you'll be right back here" as that is the law of recidivism. The original quote was at that time of my life "time on the outs is just waiting till I go back in" and no sir. I told all "actually no you won't see me again" and upon full parole I skipped the state and went down to San Diego where I was accepted into UCSD to get my masters and with that then I was sponsored by a world major to go to England and trade 4 years of my life and they would pay in full for my PH.d that I was awarded in 1988. Then I spent the next decades now in the insane world of high rise glass tower construction and that life coming to a retirement with my turning 62 a few months ago and I've never sat in a jail cell anywhere on the planet since. I'm easy to find = just Google up the words "Thomas the glass expert" and there I am at very top of the first page. So can a con go straight = yes. Prison did not motivate me to do that becoming a responsible good citizen and father to 4 did. Prison only teaches punishment exactly where an awful lot of people belong.