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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Trans isn't real. There is a boundary violating political movement targeting children using sex asking us to believe that children can consent to experimental surgery. If children can consent to changing sex, they can consent to having sex. There are literally people trying to rebrand pedophilia as innate and something to pity the perv about. Why do you so deny that society is largely pushing sexual boundaries with children?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Trans isn't real.

What?

The American psychiatric association, which publishes the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, seem to think it exists.

What's your expertise?

There is a boundary violating political movement targeting children using sex asking us to believe that children can consent to experimental surgery.

Woah. You might need to lay off the cool aid there, dwo.

What "experimental surgery" are we talking about here?

If children can consent to changing sex, they can consent to having sex.

Sounds plausible, because both phrases involve the similar words like "consent to" and "sex". But if you think about it, the word "sex" isn't the same in those phrases. "Changing sex" is about gender and "having sex" is about the sex act. The reason that a child can't consent to sex is because it interferes with their psychological development around sex, and we know from experience this doesn't have good outcomes for the child.

The reason that a sufferer of gender dysphoria might want to dress as and present as the other gender is that it does have good outcomes for the child, where the diagnosis is correct.

There are literally people trying to rebrand pedophilia as innate and something to pity the perv about.

In psychology pedophillia is a paraphillic disorder. It is a technical use of the term, not a rebranding to discuss this separately from the act of child rape.

Importantly gender dysphoria is not pedophillia, and gender dysphoria is not related to child rape. People pushing that it is are generally conservative Christians looking for any abnormality to hate. Most people don't care if someone want to present as any gender. Ironically there is evidence that Christianity is related to child rape.

Why do you so deny that society is largely pushing sexual boundaries with children?

I'm not pushing anything of the sort. The OP was about a trans person. The claim that this has anything to do with sexual boundaries and children is christian hate.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Oh, a political body which changes it's diagnostic manual depending on advocacy! It must be truth! That's why so many things that were in number one are still the same names and criteria in number five. Super excited for the new release to learn what new behaviors we can label as a disease (just like real doctors!)

Again, trans isn't real. Transgenderism is a fashion trend, it is a religion, it is a sexual perversion or it is the same body hatred as any other self-hating mental disorder, whose treatment is to come back to reality, not to claim innate gender soul and force everyone to submit to your version of yourself.

Experimental surgery is cutting the breasts off minor girls going through the same puberty distress generations of women have gone through without removing their breasts. Suzie Green had her son castrated in Thailand at 16. Jazz is on his fourth surgery to repair the damage?

I didn't say gender dysphoria is pedophilia - luckily you do not have to have gender dysphoria to be trans. Trans does not equal gender dysphoria, bigot!

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Oh, a political body which changes it's diagnostic manual depending on advocacy!

You're mistaken about that. It's a professional organization of psychiatrists in the US.

It must be truth!

The DSM is used the world over. It's a pretty good indication of what exists.

Certainly much better than your own unsupported opinion.

Again, trans isn't real.

Again, what's your experise?

The American psychiatric association, which publishes the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, seem to think it exists.

Experimental surgery is cutting the breasts off minor girls going through the same puberty distress generations of women have gone through without removing their breasts.

Rarely done in minors.

Patients under 18 years of age may be candidates for gender-affirming mastectomy if the patient, their legal guardians and/or parents, their therapist and their care team believe that delaying surgery until the age of maturity (18) would result in patient harm. - https://www.plasticsurgery.org/for-medical-professionals/publications/plastic-surgery-resident/news/inservice-insights-gender-affirming-mastectomy

Suzie Green had her son castrated in Thailand at 16.

By all accounts Jackie is much happier now post surgery. It looks like Suzie had the correct diagnosis.

Jazz is on his fourth surgery to repair the damage?

Tom Cruise would have gone under the plastic surgeon's knife a lot more than four times.

I didn't say gender dysphoria is pedophilia

Being trans isn't related to "Soon they will have permission to f*** your children."

luckily you do not have to have gender dysphoria to be trans.

Trans is a less technical term. If they don't have gender dysphoria, they wouldn't seek gender reassignment surgery, so none of your comments are relevant in that case.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Tom Cruise would have gone under the plastic surgeon's knife a lot more than four times.

Getting your nose tweaked is a lot different from having to get your surgically reconstructed genitals repaired because they split at the seams because puberty blockers prevented you from growing enough tissue for the surgery you wanted.

Trying to sit down or urinate without pain, with sex obviously being out of the question. But luckily puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have made Jazz unable to experience sexual arousal whatsoever, so who's to say whether it's the surgery or the hormones, and who cares, right? Let's just keep doing it to every little gay boy who wants to wear a dress and has dysphoria because he's gay.

As if there's anyone on planet earth who has never once considered suicide.

Gender dysphoria usually resolves itself on its own and the kids grow up to be gay or dykes.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Where are you getting these details about Jazz's surgeries?

Gender dysphoria usually resolves itself on its own and the kids grow up to be gay or dykes.

You can generally tell by puberty age if the dysphoria is worsening or will resolve.

They're pretty good at picking it. Transition regret is of the order of 1%.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Where are you getting these details about Jazz's surgeries?

From Jazz's literal mouth because he and his whole family participate in a reality show about his pain ever since they had that one viral youtube video where he's 3 years old and wearing a girls' swimsuit and talking about how he's so happy he's a girl now. His family wouldn't just let him wear a fucking rainbow swimsuit without forcing him to try and become a straight girl.

His father admits that he would regularly scream and lose his shit at 3-year-old Jazz for playing dress-up and being too feminine in general, especially when he wanted to wear dresses outside the house. His parents almost divorced because of what a raging piece of shit he was, but his mom still clearly agreed on some level because she believed that femininity in her male child was a sign of some deep psychological disturbance and she found an easy solution on an internet forum.

There is a picture online of Jazz's father holding him at school when he's wearing a princess dress (some father's day event) barely able to contain the deep level of disgust he has for his own child which turns his attempt at a smile into a sneer. He admitted that the morning the photo was taken, he had another screaming meltdown over the fact that his son wanted to wear a dress to school, but this time Jazz's mom convinced him to let him because an internet forum told her he was a little girl trapped in a boy's body, not an irredeemably worthless feminine male.

So yeah, then they made their viral video about how 3-year-old Jazz is truly a girl inside and that's the only reason they let him dress and act a certain way. It blew up and they got so famous they got a reality show out of it.

Now they like to sit around in their little mansion that they bought with the money they got from broadcasting their son's living nightmare and talk about how Jazz's mental and physical health is so fucked up because he doesn't try hard enough and he's mean and he's ungrateful and hey, let's take him roller skating and ziplining even though he's morbidly obese (also isn't it hilarious and disgusting how fat Jazz is? let's ignore the estrogen we put him on) and on his 4th revision surgery because his genitals keep splitting at the seams. Oopsies teehee does he need another revision? Phew because if he left for college and stopped doing the show, mom and dad would have to sell the mansion and move to a condo and her brothers would have to get jobs.

In a shocking moment of self-awareness, Jazz went to a "hypnotherapist" and experienced "past-life regression", where in a "past life" he was a gay boy who was rejected by his family and homeless on the streets.

Jazz's family threw a party to celebrate cutting off his penis when he was 17 years old. Jazz's family tracks his every move (he is 22) and he needs explicit permission to go anywhere. If his phone tracker shows that he is somewhere different, his family shows up to where he is to harass him about "lying".

Jazz's family wants him to stay home and not go to college because he's "not ready" (their wallets aren't ready). Then when Jazz breaks and says he doesn't know if he wants to keep going to college, his family still degrades him for "giving up".

I imagine that the money from the show is legally Jazz's parents' and not his, increasing his dependence on them.

The show mainly features his severe physical and mental health problems.

All of this is public. Most of the show can be found for free on the internet. The show is called "I am Jazz".

They're pretty good at picking it. Transition regret is of the order of 1%.

We already talked about the way those studies don't include people who commit suicide and only include respondents in their data (those who respond are more likely to not have regret). They also discount your data if you no longer identify as transgender. Have you not looked at a detransition study since 2016? Newer surveys show closer to 13%. And in the largest study on detranstioners to date, only 24% of them reported to their clinic that they were detransitioning. And we can reasonably assume that the patients who agreed to participate in this study were far more likely to report their detransition to their clinic instead of continuing to keep their regrets to themselves.

You can generally tell by puberty age if the dysphoria is worsening or will resolve.

Actually kids who get gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty (ROGD) are much more likely to regret it and detransition.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

From Jazz's literal mouth because he and his whole family participate in a reality show about his pain

What's your interest in transsexual focused reality TV?

Did you watch all 8 seasons?

We already talked about the way those studies don't include people who commit suicide and only include respondents in their data (those who respond are more likely to not have regret).

That hasn't become any more true since we talked about it.

And in the largest study on detranstioners to date, only 24% of them reported to their clinic that they were detransitioning.

You might be mistaken about that too.

Here's a systematic review and meta-analysis of Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery studies, totalling about 80 times that many.

Actually kids who get gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty (ROGD) are much more likely to regret it and detransition.

Source?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'll come back to respond to the rest. It's annoying how you have done no research and just cite the same 2 or 3 studies and completely ignore any problems with them. It's interesting how you're hyper-critical of things like anti-vax conspiracies (for good reason) but then once it comes to something you feel like a good virtuous "liberal" for supporting (transitioning minors), suddenly you're uncritical.

I just wanted to respond to this really quick:

What's your interest in transsexual focused reality TV?

Lol... what? Do you have a response to what I told you or not? You're just going to imply I'm some kind of weirdo for watching the show and ignore all the content.

How can you explain your lack of interest and subsequent knowledge, yet vehement defense of your uninformed views on the subject?

Look into the lives of other famous "trans kids" and you'll see the same thing. I forget his name, but there was some famous trans kid model whose family was even more blatant and admitted to beating him with a belt for "being a faggot" before they learned that "God put a girl's soul in a boy's body".

Did you watch all 8 seasons?

I might go back at some point and pirate the rest, but about half the episodes in each season are free on the website for the provider that airs it. So I've seen about 50% of the entire show, some from all seasons.

Surprise surprise ActuallyNot, there's nothing wrong with masculine females or feminine males. There's nothing that needs to be "cured". They don't need to change themselves. Treat your kid "like a boy" if it's a dysphoric female, and "like a girl" if it's a dysphoric male. But don't pretend they actually are some straight, masculine male or straight, feminine female with some "birth defect" or try and physically change their bodies because it's so unfathomable to you that some people are simply born that way and don't need to be mutilated and given hormone treatments to assimilate with everyone else.

I'm guessing you also defend doctors making the choice to surgically "assign a gender" (yes, that's where the term was co-opted from) to babies with ambiguous genitalia when nothing is genuinely wrong with them and their health is fine.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's annoying how you have done no research and just cite the same 2 or 3 studies and completely ignore any problems with them.

Okay. We disagree over the problems with them. You need to be a lot more specific about the problems with it.

Lets start with:

How many people of each study do you claim dropped out by suicide?

Then we can discuss the proportion of those we could plausibly attribute to regret, and what impact that would have on the regret proportion.

Lol... what? Do you have a response to what I told you or not?

It's not the sort of thing I'd watch, and the reviews say that it's sympathetic, so it's unlikely, if you were engaged in the show, that you'd discuss her situation with such negativity towards her. And I imagine that they wouldn't have misgendered her in the show. But you go straight to "him" as if you're not informed by the show.

So I've seen about 50% of the entire show, some from all seasons.

What did you feel watching it?

What did you get out of it?

I'm guessing you also defend doctors making the choice to surgically "assign a gender" (yes, that's where the term was co-opted from) to babies with ambiguous genitalia when nothing is genuinely wrong with them and their health is fine.

I believe that its best practise to wait, until you get an informed consent from the patient.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The reason that a child can't consent to sex is because it interferes with their psychological development around sex

Psychological development aside, there isn't enough data to say how early transitioning affects children's physical development, so we can't truly understand the risks.

Surprisingly, they have not even tried rat studies in which they block the rat's puberty and supplement cross-sex hormones, then castrate/spay. I'd like to see some data about the neurological effects, along with the effects on the entire body (are they more prone to other diseases? are they cognitively affected?).

I did see a study where they had rats on lupron for their entire lives, but they studied only whether they were more likely to act more similarly to control rats of the same sex in certain situations.

An adulthood transition is much easier to stop or reverse. I don't understand why transitioning minors is the hill so many liberals want to die on.

The reason that a sufferer of gender dysphoria might want to dress as and present as the other gender is that it does have good outcomes for the child, where the diagnosis is correct.

And further, why can't a parent just let a kid dress masculine/feminine and get a masculine haircut or grow out their hair? How is that considered a step towards transitioning? Plenty of parents of butch dykes have been letting their kids do that and they end up well-adjusted. It's less common for parents to allow their male kids to do the same, but it would allow the child to feel more comfortable if they really want. It seems that "gender non-conformity" is only allowed in the context of transitioning now, and any "gender non-conformity" is considered the first step to transitioning.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Surprisingly, they have not even tried rat studies in which they block the rat's puberty and supplement cross-sex hormones, then castrate/spay.

Not a very good model for the surgery that teens with gender dysphoria would be considering. Did you mean block the rat's puberty and supplement cross-sex hormones, then implant breasts/perform mastectomy?

I'd like to see some data about the neurological effects, along with the effects on the entire body (are they more prone to other diseases? are they cognitively affected?).

Yeah. As would we all. We are focused on having a greater proportion of them live through their teens.

And further, why can't a parent just let a kid dress masculine/feminine and get a masculine haircut or grow out their hair? How is that considered a step towards transitioning?

Gender affirmation is presenting as the other gender.

Yeah, you can also present as a butch dyke, and there's not much difference until you have breasts.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not a very good model for the surgery that teens with gender dysphoria would be considering. Did you mean block the rat's puberty and supplement cross-sex hormones, then implant breasts/perform mastectomy?

I meant their whole lives (studying impact at each stage) starting from adolescence, which would include SRS (castration/spaying) at a later age. I don't see why the exact physical surgeries of SRS or mastectomy would need to be recreated outside of their hormonal impact, if that's what we want data on, so a genital reconstruction seems unnecessary, but removing the reproductive organs other than the genitals would elicit a comparable hormonal profile. Mastectomy/implants seems similarly unnecessary for the type of data I'm talking about. Also it sort of seems like a colossal waste of time to perfect the art of rat mastectomy/implants.

Again, I said "long-term effects on development", and most kids who start these treatments continue all the way down the path. But yes, it would also be good to see some studies where they stop all treatment in the rats' lives after puberty and some time on cross-sex hormones.

Yeah. As would we all. We are focused on having a greater proportion of them live through their teens.

Youth with gender dysphoria have been living through their teens fine until this point. They're known as gays and lesbians.

Gender affirmation is presenting as the other gender.

Again, you can "present as the other gender" without pretending you're the other sex. "Presenting as a butch dyke" is the same as "presenting as a boy/man". If parents won't allow their little boy to wear dresses or their little girl to wear boy's clothes and have short hair without a gender dysphoria diagnosis, that's a different problem.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I meant their whole lives (studying impact at each stage) starting from adolescence, which would include SRS (castration/spaying) at a later age.

That operation is prohibitively expensive for most Americans. A lot of trans people would rather have a house.

Youth with gender dysphoria have been living through their teens fine until this point. They're known as gays and lesbians.

No, you're quite wrong about that.

Where did you get that idea?

Again, you can "present as the other gender" without pretending you're the other sex.

That's right. But gender affirmation, including living as and presenting as the other sex does improve the well-being of people with gender dysphoria.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That operation is prohibitively expensive for most Americans.

Good. It's the most horrific of any other transition procedure by far, with some studies reporting up to a 70% complication rate, and no studies reporting under 20%. You will most likely lose at least some sexual function (the antiandrogens MTFs take cause them to lose their sex drive anyway, many say this is a blessing after the surgery), and you can lose your ability to even urinate properly or die of a horrific infection.

No, you're quite wrong about that.

Where'd you get that idea? Your imagination? Gays and lesbians have gender dysphoria. Apparently this isn't common knowledge for straight people. You could try reading James Cantor's research. You know "trans brains?" The brains of all gays and dykes are "inverted" in that way. Yes, even when they're not transsexuals. You'll also notice that in heterosexual transsexuals, their brains do not show this inversion. And you'll also notice that the heterosexual transsexuals transition much later in life for a variety of reasons, and it's dykes and gays who have dysphoria since birth.

That's right. But gender affirmation, including living as and presenting as the other sex does improve the well-being of people with gender dysphoria.

Actually pretending inhibits their ability to accept their own bodies because it strengthens the association between sex and gender, causing gender dysphoria to be more severe and persist for longer.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

with some studies reporting up to a 70% complication rate, and no studies reporting under 20%.

That many?

What counts as a complication in these studies?

Gays and lesbians have gender dysphoria.

Not even close.

Homosexuals are about 3.5% of the population.

Transexuals less than 1/10th of that.

Actually pretending inhibits their ability to accept their own bodies because it strengthens the association between sex and gender, causing gender dysphoria to be more severe and persist for longer.

Source?