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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Tom Cruise would have gone under the plastic surgeon's knife a lot more than four times.

Getting your nose tweaked is a lot different from having to get your surgically reconstructed genitals repaired because they split at the seams because puberty blockers prevented you from growing enough tissue for the surgery you wanted.

Trying to sit down or urinate without pain, with sex obviously being out of the question. But luckily puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have made Jazz unable to experience sexual arousal whatsoever, so who's to say whether it's the surgery or the hormones, and who cares, right? Let's just keep doing it to every little gay boy who wants to wear a dress and has dysphoria because he's gay.

As if there's anyone on planet earth who has never once considered suicide.

Gender dysphoria usually resolves itself on its own and the kids grow up to be gay or dykes.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Where are you getting these details about Jazz's surgeries?

Gender dysphoria usually resolves itself on its own and the kids grow up to be gay or dykes.

You can generally tell by puberty age if the dysphoria is worsening or will resolve.

They're pretty good at picking it. Transition regret is of the order of 1%.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Where are you getting these details about Jazz's surgeries?

From Jazz's literal mouth because he and his whole family participate in a reality show about his pain ever since they had that one viral youtube video where he's 3 years old and wearing a girls' swimsuit and talking about how he's so happy he's a girl now. His family wouldn't just let him wear a fucking rainbow swimsuit without forcing him to try and become a straight girl.

His father admits that he would regularly scream and lose his shit at 3-year-old Jazz for playing dress-up and being too feminine in general, especially when he wanted to wear dresses outside the house. His parents almost divorced because of what a raging piece of shit he was, but his mom still clearly agreed on some level because she believed that femininity in her male child was a sign of some deep psychological disturbance and she found an easy solution on an internet forum.

There is a picture online of Jazz's father holding him at school when he's wearing a princess dress (some father's day event) barely able to contain the deep level of disgust he has for his own child which turns his attempt at a smile into a sneer. He admitted that the morning the photo was taken, he had another screaming meltdown over the fact that his son wanted to wear a dress to school, but this time Jazz's mom convinced him to let him because an internet forum told her he was a little girl trapped in a boy's body, not an irredeemably worthless feminine male.

So yeah, then they made their viral video about how 3-year-old Jazz is truly a girl inside and that's the only reason they let him dress and act a certain way. It blew up and they got so famous they got a reality show out of it.

Now they like to sit around in their little mansion that they bought with the money they got from broadcasting their son's living nightmare and talk about how Jazz's mental and physical health is so fucked up because he doesn't try hard enough and he's mean and he's ungrateful and hey, let's take him roller skating and ziplining even though he's morbidly obese (also isn't it hilarious and disgusting how fat Jazz is? let's ignore the estrogen we put him on) and on his 4th revision surgery because his genitals keep splitting at the seams. Oopsies teehee does he need another revision? Phew because if he left for college and stopped doing the show, mom and dad would have to sell the mansion and move to a condo and her brothers would have to get jobs.

In a shocking moment of self-awareness, Jazz went to a "hypnotherapist" and experienced "past-life regression", where in a "past life" he was a gay boy who was rejected by his family and homeless on the streets.

Jazz's family threw a party to celebrate cutting off his penis when he was 17 years old. Jazz's family tracks his every move (he is 22) and he needs explicit permission to go anywhere. If his phone tracker shows that he is somewhere different, his family shows up to where he is to harass him about "lying".

Jazz's family wants him to stay home and not go to college because he's "not ready" (their wallets aren't ready). Then when Jazz breaks and says he doesn't know if he wants to keep going to college, his family still degrades him for "giving up".

I imagine that the money from the show is legally Jazz's parents' and not his, increasing his dependence on them.

The show mainly features his severe physical and mental health problems.

All of this is public. Most of the show can be found for free on the internet. The show is called "I am Jazz".

They're pretty good at picking it. Transition regret is of the order of 1%.

We already talked about the way those studies don't include people who commit suicide and only include respondents in their data (those who respond are more likely to not have regret). They also discount your data if you no longer identify as transgender. Have you not looked at a detransition study since 2016? Newer surveys show closer to 13%. And in the largest study on detranstioners to date, only 24% of them reported to their clinic that they were detransitioning. And we can reasonably assume that the patients who agreed to participate in this study were far more likely to report their detransition to their clinic instead of continuing to keep their regrets to themselves.

You can generally tell by puberty age if the dysphoria is worsening or will resolve.

Actually kids who get gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty (ROGD) are much more likely to regret it and detransition.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

From Jazz's literal mouth because he and his whole family participate in a reality show about his pain

What's your interest in transsexual focused reality TV?

Did you watch all 8 seasons?

We already talked about the way those studies don't include people who commit suicide and only include respondents in their data (those who respond are more likely to not have regret).

That hasn't become any more true since we talked about it.

And in the largest study on detranstioners to date, only 24% of them reported to their clinic that they were detransitioning.

You might be mistaken about that too.

Here's a systematic review and meta-analysis of Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery studies, totalling about 80 times that many.

Actually kids who get gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty (ROGD) are much more likely to regret it and detransition.

Source?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'll come back to respond to the rest. It's annoying how you have done no research and just cite the same 2 or 3 studies and completely ignore any problems with them. It's interesting how you're hyper-critical of things like anti-vax conspiracies (for good reason) but then once it comes to something you feel like a good virtuous "liberal" for supporting (transitioning minors), suddenly you're uncritical.

I just wanted to respond to this really quick:

What's your interest in transsexual focused reality TV?

Lol... what? Do you have a response to what I told you or not? You're just going to imply I'm some kind of weirdo for watching the show and ignore all the content.

How can you explain your lack of interest and subsequent knowledge, yet vehement defense of your uninformed views on the subject?

Look into the lives of other famous "trans kids" and you'll see the same thing. I forget his name, but there was some famous trans kid model whose family was even more blatant and admitted to beating him with a belt for "being a faggot" before they learned that "God put a girl's soul in a boy's body".

Did you watch all 8 seasons?

I might go back at some point and pirate the rest, but about half the episodes in each season are free on the website for the provider that airs it. So I've seen about 50% of the entire show, some from all seasons.

Surprise surprise ActuallyNot, there's nothing wrong with masculine females or feminine males. There's nothing that needs to be "cured". They don't need to change themselves. Treat your kid "like a boy" if it's a dysphoric female, and "like a girl" if it's a dysphoric male. But don't pretend they actually are some straight, masculine male or straight, feminine female with some "birth defect" or try and physically change their bodies because it's so unfathomable to you that some people are simply born that way and don't need to be mutilated and given hormone treatments to assimilate with everyone else.

I'm guessing you also defend doctors making the choice to surgically "assign a gender" (yes, that's where the term was co-opted from) to babies with ambiguous genitalia when nothing is genuinely wrong with them and their health is fine.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's annoying how you have done no research and just cite the same 2 or 3 studies and completely ignore any problems with them.

Okay. We disagree over the problems with them. You need to be a lot more specific about the problems with it.

Lets start with:

How many people of each study do you claim dropped out by suicide?

Then we can discuss the proportion of those we could plausibly attribute to regret, and what impact that would have on the regret proportion.

Lol... what? Do you have a response to what I told you or not?

It's not the sort of thing I'd watch, and the reviews say that it's sympathetic, so it's unlikely, if you were engaged in the show, that you'd discuss her situation with such negativity towards her. And I imagine that they wouldn't have misgendered her in the show. But you go straight to "him" as if you're not informed by the show.

So I've seen about 50% of the entire show, some from all seasons.

What did you feel watching it?

What did you get out of it?

I'm guessing you also defend doctors making the choice to surgically "assign a gender" (yes, that's where the term was co-opted from) to babies with ambiguous genitalia when nothing is genuinely wrong with them and their health is fine.

I believe that its best practise to wait, until you get an informed consent from the patient.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How many people of each study do you claim dropped out by suicide?

How am I supposed to know how many dropped out due to suicide? The point is that we don't know because the researchers never followed up. It could be ALL of them (unlikely). You won't even admit that we can't be sure.

Consider this study which shows that people who have undergone SRS are 20x more likely than the general population to commit suicide.

Then we can discuss the proportion of those we could plausibly attribute to regret, and what impact that would have on the regret proportion.

What? You want to make up some random story, guess all the percentages, and then make up some explanation to justify the percentages we guessed at? This is starting to sound like the conspiracy theorists here.

it's unlikely, if you were engaged in the show...

Are you accusing me of lying about watching the show for... argument points? Lol.

the reviews say that it's sympathetic... [you have] such negativity toward her

How unsympathetic and negative of me to point out the ways his family abuses and exploits him.

What did you feel watching it?

Is this a therapy session lol. It's a show about a gay boy who's mental and physical health is on the verge because of severe abuse by everyone he's ever loved.

I believe that its best practise to wait, until you get an informed consent from the patient.

The patient or the patient's parents?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Consider this study which shows that people who have undergone SRS are 20x more likely than the general population to commit suicide.

There's no doubt that transgender people are at increased risk of death by suicide.

But the evidence is that regret of gender affirming surgery is of the order of 1%. For that to be significantly wrong due to suicides being predominantly in the group that experiences regret, there would have to be an increase in suicides for transgender people who have undergone gender affirming surgery due to regret.

This would mean that the protective effect from surgery against suicide is also being underestimated by a similar amount.

The studies aren't great, as at 2 years ago, but it appears that gender affirming surgery significantly reduces suicides.

Given that that's all we know, that's enough for most parents.

Are you accusing me of lying about watching the show for... argument points? Lol.

Not at all. I'm wondering what you got out of watching them.

Is this a therapy session lol. It's a show about a gay boy who's mental and physical health is on the verge because of severe abuse by everyone he's ever loved.

Okay.

The patient or the patient's parents?

The patient. You need to know where the psychological gender it going to lie. You shouldn't surgically alter the sex of an infant. Or even a child.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You shouldn't surgically alter the sex of... a child.

But GnRH analogues and cross-sex hormones are okay? Why?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Again, for cross sex hormones, you need to know where the psychological gender is going to lie. You shouldn't biochemically alter the sex an infant. There are very rare cases where it's clear, but it the general case it's not done to a child either.

Puberty blockers allow the decision to be delayed until the diagnosis is certain. Many cases of gender dysphoria resolve on their own, and transitioning should be avoided until it's clear that it has to be treated.