Abortion "rights" are the fight to establish unborn children legally as dehumanized property

submitted by SoCo from self.whatever

This barbaric concept of owning your children or wife is not new. At points in time it was legal and/or acceptable to rape, beat, abuse, sell, or sometimes even cause the death of humans regarded to as your property.

This is just a different spin from another perspective.

Slavery and the aforementioned instances of human ownership, always seem to start with dehumanizing them.

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[–]jet199Instigatrix 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

This take is so dumb.

Do you not see the slippery slope you send us down when you say parents don't own their children?

[–]raven9 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you not see the slippery slope when you say they do? If you believe the parents literally own the children then you have to believe it is a parents right to abuse them if they want to so why is that a crime?

Because under the concept of civilization and being civilized human beings everyone has rights. Including babies and children.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

So at which age you'd propose to consider them as "persons" in a legal sense ?

When they are considered "objects": Ownership of it automatically is a question or attribute

the legal robber barons will attack.

I'm just trying to understand the point you're making better...

[–]jet199Instigatrix 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

So children legally can't make their own decisions. If that's not the right of parents, who?

The state?

You aren't giving children power here, you are taking it away from individual relatives and giving it to a faceless bureaucracy.

Obviously there are checks and balances because parents aren't always perfect. That's solved by making certain actions by parents a crime.

But who has better outcomes, kids raised by their parents or the state?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a misunderstanding, obviously.

I asked you. Before your judgement following from a conclusion i for myself didn't even think of drawing.

Just answer my question, if you feel inclined to, please. It was not intended as a rhetorical question, i'm really asking.

[–]RedEyedWarrior 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said. Children should not be properties of the state.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Or when men don't own their wives.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not saying it's a causal relationship, but things really took a shit since the 19th amendment. Legal divorce has done massive harm to families, mostly children. Educating women leads to a collapse of birth rates, leading to declining populations which have horrible consequences. Women in the work force destroyed wages and living standards. Women not raising thier children are a huge factor in societal decline and the rise of corporate brainwashed sheep.

These are all things that should be explored, studied, and weighed in any discussion about the "evils" of "oppressing" women.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

We don't have to choose between women being educated and women being mothers. If there was more support for women taking time off to raise their kids, this would be a non issue. You have to remember that women are human beings with their own goals and aspirations and they have the same fundamental human rights as men. It is abhorrent for the law to restrict freedoms based on sex. It's a little upsetting that I even have to say this, honestly.

The things that you mention here that weaken the family happened because that was the agenda all along. "They" planned it that way. If the intent was genuinely to expand freedoms for women, it would have included support for them staying as homemakers too. But it didn't. Gradually society changed so that it was impossible for families to survive on one income. It didn't have to be that way.

There are a lot of women who want to stay home with their kids and they can't because shit's too expensive. If they could, many more women would focus on their families while also pursuing their own goals. It's hard but it is doable and lots of women do this already.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If there was more support for women taking time off to raise their kids, this would be a non issue

Source? Seriously, what evidence is there for that, because it is not as obvious as you seem to think.

We are talking about the extremely powerful effect of girls going to school and the collapse of birth rates. This happens pre employment. The more women are pushed into valuing careers over family the worse it gets. I strongly doubt that this would change with "well we will give you more maternity leave". By the time they are at that stage in life they gave up their best decade for child rearing.

My agrument isn't "no education for women". It is not that simple. But let's be honest about the costs. Let's start with promoting family more and feminism less.

You have to remember that women are human beings with their own goals and aspirations and they have the same fundamental human rights as men.

You have to realize that this argument is nothing short of slanderous strawmanning. Obviously women have rights, goals and aspersions. Who are you telling this to? Oh right, the straw man you built.

Women's education has value. It also has consequences. Let's start by having an honest conversation without immediately demonizing the other side.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't demonize anything. I responded to what I perceived from you, which is that you were questioning whether people should have access to education based on their sex. If I was wrong about that, great! No need for hostility.

Source? Seriously, what evidence is there for that,

My own experience as well as that of many other women who genuinely want to have families and also pursue other goals. I'm also curious what kind of source you were looking for, because I while I could find peer reviewed journal articles on this topic for you, I'm not sure you'd be interested in biased studies funded by neoliberal organizations.

How is it a strawman to state that women are human beings with human rights? If the possibility of denying their access to education is on the table, then my statement was clearly necessary. But like I said, I misunderstood what your point was.

I just want to reiterate that it wasn't education itself that ruined the family. It was the total lack of support for women who still did want to stay home. Also, education doesn't have to look the way it does now. It doesn't have to be so all consuming and linear, so institutionalized. In general, education is a great thing for society - but the institutions are the problem.

I imagine we agree on more than you'd think and I really don't think this needs to be a combative argument.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you were questioning whether people should have access to education based on their sex

That is not my argument at all. I said there are consequences to it that we need to be honest about. The biggest problem in our society is that we are divided on a lot of subjects and one side always lies, obfuscates and denies as a standard practice which makes resolutions and solutions impossible.

How is it a strawman to state that women are human beings with human rights?

That is the rebuttal portion of the strawman argument. The strawman is your suggestion that I am arguing for something which this contradicts.

If the possibility of denying their access to education is on table

It's not.

It was the total lack of support for women who still did want to stay home.

When the birthrates were high, before "women's empowerment" what support was there for those women? How can you say the problem is lack of support when support was never available?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do YOU not see the slippery slope you send us down when you say people are property?

Parents can have parental rights without dehumanizing the children. The children only have rights when they are human beings.

[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I'm just happy the lefties are all butt hurt over it. Let them cry salty tears.

[–]TarBaby 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Hoe's mad, Hoe's mad! Slutty liberal women.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Conservative women have abortions too. As do married, faithful women. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it's true. The issue is much bigger than you think.

[–]TarBaby 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abortion is murder it is not healthcare for women. You all need Jesus!

[–]Mazurro 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Heh, I don't give a shit about abortion at all, but I am all for banning it just to make women think twice before being railed raw. Their degeneracy must end.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, no one should have sex with men. They are disgusting and spread monkey pox.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Sexual degeneracy is perpetuated by men and women. In fact, in heterosexual relationships it is impossible for women to do it alone. The more you know!

[–]Mazurro 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Women are the ones who allow it. Men can want it, but alone they are unable to commit degeneracy

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Are you even listening to yourself?

Men can want it, but alone they are unable to commit degeneracy

Women also can't do it alone. That's the point. It literally requires a man a woman. Both of them "allow" it. (In fact, if the woman doesn't want it, the man still has the power to physically force it...)

Personal responsibility is important. You look weak when you deny the man's part of that responsibility. Men and women need to stand up and be adults.

[–]Mazurro 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh yeah, then tell me how is man allowed to terminate unwanted pregnancy when he doesn't want it but female does? Tell me how guy who was raped is forced to pay support for a child which came from rape?

All a female has to do is to say "use contraception". If your toilet head cannot comprehend it then it's not my problem.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well your first point about abortion - the legality of that practice varies by state and country. It's not an absolute. And that also doesn't have anything to do with the topic we started with.

Tell me how guy who was raped is forced to pay support for a child which came from rape?

This is not common at all lol but the same thing would happen if the genders were reversed. The problem here is rape, not women or men as a whole.

All a female has to do is to say "use contraception".

I don't understand what you mean. Men and women both have contraceptive options. And they also both use manipulation tactics with each other (i.e. "stealthing" with condoms or lying about being on the pill)

If your toilet head cannot comprehend it then it's not my problem.

If you can't handle conversations like an adult, what's the point of even talking about this stuff?

[–]Mazurro 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is not common at all lol but the same thing would happen if the genders were reversed.

XDDDDDDDDDDDDD. When genders were reversed, it was allowed all along and was fucking funded.

I don't understand what you mean. Men and women both have contraceptive options.

I don't give a shit, if they cannot find a partner who doesn't "manipulate" it's not my problem. Afterall, sex isn't a need tee hee.

What's the point of even talking about this stuff?

You started commenting. I can have normal conversations, just not with someone with a female in nick. Fuck off.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, I replied to your comment. So you started commenting.

You've revealed yourself to be unintelligent with this reply, your arguments are inconsistent and the fact that I'm female has nothing to do with the points I'm making.

Good luck!

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why do you care about women getting laid?

[–]Mazurro 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I hate them, kinda simple. Each shit which makes their life worse is good.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I get it. You are a propagandists operating a sockpuppet account designed to simulate an incel. That's pretty pathetic. You should find a more ethical job.

[–]Mazurro 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Whatever you want it to be. I truly hate women and that's all.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I believe slavery never actually "stopped".

They just changed the labels and "price tags" of it again and again.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Thats why 'minimum wage' rhymes with...

[–]jamesK_3rd 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Cinnamon sage?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do tell ... I'm curious ?

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Slave

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

hmm... ok ... i can't follow... but i can accept this.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So you dont usually speak english?

[–]Nona_Biba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

slaves don't live inside my body and affect my body

[–]yelgy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what's wrong with aborting the undesireables?