Other side of the Story?

submitted by StillLessons from self.politics

A genuine question here. I'm embarrassed to be asking this only now, as this should have been a question asked at the time.

The Derek Chauvin case is starting. The foundation of this story happened the night he used his knee on George Floyd's neck to contain him for more than eight minutes.

The simple - media promoted, politician promoted, activist promoted - narrative is that Chauvin did what he did because he is a racist cop who didn't care whether Floyd lived or died. Simple, straightforward murder.

I've never heard another interpretation. The simple story is a completely closed case that doesn't address Chauvin's stated motive for his behavior.

Does anyone know what Chauvin claims is the reason for the length of time he used the containment technique he used? Assuming the simple story is too simple (which it seems to me, with hindsight), what was Chauvin waiting for? He held Floyd down for that length of time until at some point, something changed, and Chauvin was prepared to end this technique and continue with the arrest procedure using other means. If he wasn't trying to kill Floyd, what was he waiting for to be able to stop holding him down?

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[–]StrategicTactic 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

George Floyd has multiple priors, and in one particular instance, he ingested the drugs he had on him so they could not be found. Then he feigned (or maybe it was real) paranoia, where he claimed "He couldn't breathe". Sound familiar? During the time with Derek Chauvin, he was put into the patrol car where he kept crying out in terror about being claustrophobic and demanded to be put outside. That is when Chauvin restrained him. I believe the cops were waiting for medical services, since WHILE IN THE CAR he was saying he could not breathe. Since you CAN breathe if you can talk, it was probably not considered an emergency by medical.

The autopsy report showed no soft tissue damage to the neck or spine (which would have happened if trauma was caused, including suffocation), and a mixture of drugs including Fentanyl. The amount in his system was 3 times what has been known to cause death elsewhere. Another report from the same coroner said that if he had not seen the video and was told it the toxicology report was from someone pulled from an apartment, he would have declared it to be an overdose.

[–]StillLessons[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for this. Each time I hear more about the details, I learn more. In what you write here, for example, I didn't know that he had been put in the car before being taken out and restrained.

One thing is becoming increasingly clear with each detail that arrives: the dominant narrative in this case is completely ignoring the incredible difficulties and deep stress put on cops every time they have to deal with a person who is deeply intoxicated, especially a large and thus potentially quite dangerous individual. Handling people under the effects of powerful drugs is not a trivial matter, and judging cops in that situation can never represent more than vast oversimplification of super super stressful instants in time.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The amount in his system was 3 times what has been known to cause death elsewhere

That doesn't necessarily mean anything when you take tolerance into account. Addicts routinely take more than normal people could handle.

[–]jykylsin2034 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The point still stands

[–]charlie6067 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What we have here isn't systemic racism by police but systemic arrest avoidance by thugs.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He was being held down until paramedics arrived, according to the police procedure for his state. This is the desperate last resort procedure for when the suspect is non compliant and irrational. They had Floyd in the back of the police car, but something went wrong (destroying the car?) so they pulled him out to hold him. It's sad and I don't know what kind of alternative could be used instead. The paramedics I guess would have given him something to calm him down.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Something that bothers me is that no one has mentioned what he did to be in that car to begin with. His multiple priors is a weak cop out. Just like any other time people use that as a justification for why they died. But, it's worth knowing what he did to be there.

[–]StillLessons[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

My understanding is that he passed a false bill, and the business owner called the cops.

Also, given that Floyd was clearly under the influence of drugs, I repeat what I said in response to StrategicTactic: deeply intoxicated people are fundamentally frightening to deal with. This would also contribute to why the cops were called in the first place. It doesn't require much of a stretch to believe that Floyd's behavior was scaring people before the cops were on the scene; otherwise the cops would likely not ever have had reason to be there.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I used to bounce at a strip club. I've handled my share of intoxicated people. If you can't handle them, you shouldn't be a cop.

[–]SaidOverRed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Did you ever have to hold down someone speedballing? Kicking someone out so they can be society's (or the cops') problem is a lot easier than actually having to deal with them

[–]wristaction 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I used to bounce at a strip club.

Awesome. I guess the basement of your grandma's house is like a real garden apartment. Also, a Firebird is basically a musclecar with the blue headlamps installed.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A Firebird is a V6 version of a Trans Am

[–]wristaction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The element of this story which you believe is so pivotal that others, according to you, suspiciously avoid mentioning it is the crime Floyd committed that day. However, you also declare that the matter of his multiple prior crimes is some kind of red herring.

The coke is frying your brain, friend.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is a Red herring. People bring records up as if it somehow makes it ok that they died, and it isn't. I wasn't there that day. I don't pretend to know the answers. But, I'd like all the information. Not just what the media tells me.

[–]1hairlessmonkey 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thecstore clerk called police because the 20 given by floyd was counterfeit

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Racism is a red herring. I'm sure some small % of cops are racist but overall cops are typically bullies who like imposing their will on others and requiring appropriate reverence. It isn't a race thing.

Police restraint techniques can be painful and dangerous for the subject. It could have been any of us.

I don't think the overdose would have come into play if it weren't for the officer. That doesn't happen in a vacuum apart from everything else going on. You don't add extra stress to people on drugs cause the drugs are already taxing their system.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here is a thread of the discussion I've had with /u/AXXA today:

https://saidit.net/s/ShitpostNews/comments/7nel/cnn/

TL DR:

It will be important for his attornies to show medical research on the specific amounts of drugs at issue in the present case and in other examples where death can be caused by that specific amount of the drugs in the system of a person with George's level of arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease. The rate of absorption into George's system should also be considered. If all of that technical evidence is appropriately presented, Chauvin could walk (with probation) with a reckless endangerment conviction (and it will likely cause riots, but that's not really at issue here). The Special Assistant Attorney General Jerry Blackwell will now push for the argument that Chauvin "betrayed the badge", which seems like he's backing away from the murder charge, if I read this correctly. Thus if the A.G. fails to do his best work, Chauvin won't spend a day in jail. The time it takes to absorb the drugs George took, along with other drug and health factors, followed by Chauvin leaning on George's neck for 9 minutes, still seems to indicate that the most immediate cause of death was suffocation, per the medpagetoday.com link above.

[–]SaidOverRed 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Did you watch the WHOLE VIDEO where he's tripping balls in his car (still behind the wheel)? Imagine you were there and there were no police. In that case it would be immoral of you to allow him (who's clearly strung out) to go drive and kill some mother and her baby. So you gotta get him out. And the bystanders are yelling "stop resisting!" when you do so. I'm not making this up. This is literally the quote, as well as "I'm going to die!" repeatedly while he's just sitting in his own car, while you're just talking calmly to him trying to figure out what's going on.

So you want to get him to the hospital, or atleast a holding cell where he can be examined and calm down. But he fights and fight and begs and pleads to not go in the car. You have pity on him and do ask he begs, "I'll go on the ground!"

Okay but now he's freaking out and on the ground. You can't let him go so you wait for him to calm down. You know for a fact that normal people can breath with their heads tucked down, so you know it can't hurt him.

Unluckily for you, he's already taken a lethal amount of Fentanyl as well as other drugs because he's an addict of both and neither are giving the high like they used to. So he does what every drug-user knows not to do and speedballs. Drug users know not to do this precisely because it causes over dosing and heart attacks. But you just wanted him calm enough to enter a vehicle and get him help. You didn't know he was a dead man walking. He would have died even if everyone sat and watching him run around screaming without a car or any cops.

[–]hennaojichan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[H]e's already taken a lethal amount of Fentanyl...

or given by injection? And who were those two people in the car with him?

[–]1hairlessmonkey 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The shame is that regardless of if they find the man not guilty, and I think they really must bring that verdict, this guy isn't going to be able to live without constant harrassment and threats of violence because he has already been convicted in the publics eye abd it doesn't help to have corrupt incompetent politicians like Maxine Waters introducing George Floyd bills. The fact is he was claiming he couldn't breathe before anyone touched him and had his friends just said he ingested some drugs then perhaps he could have been saved but instead the cops just had this man acting strange and being non cooperative, what else can we expect? The police want to make it back to their family too. Instead of making the officer the bad guy we should teach people how to act when they do interact with law enforcement. Poor dude, his life is going to be over just because people can't pull their heads out of their ass and realize they can't trust the news media, this country is a shit show now

[–]mongre 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dude had 11ng/Liter of fentanyl in his blood. 3ng/L is enough to pronounce death due to overdose.

The jury is going to watch the department training videos that show that exact tactic (knee on the back) being taught and encouraged.

This alone means the guy is going to be found innocent.