Opinion on COVID vaccination

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[–][deleted]  (23 children)

[deleted]

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

    Covid deaths are on a sharp decline irrespective of "vaccine" experiments, thanks to a build-up of natural herd immunity.

    That doesn't line up with the evidence.

    As of July 2021, more and more news stories points towards the unvaccinated still being culled. Whereas it is completely rare for someone who has their second dose to be both hospitalized and die.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/08/covid-vaccines-nearly-all-deaths-hospitalizations-among-unvaccinated.html

    Covid was not much more deadly than a serious strain of flu. Almost everyone had natural immunities to it.

    Covid was asymptomatic. People who didn't think they had it, still ended up taking the virus with them to large parties and contaminated everyone. This is something that has to be drilled into every anti-vaxxers head. It's not just about deaths, it's how the virus proved to be a bigger nuisance to deal with than the flu ever was.

    Hysteria responses happened not because of covid. "Covid" didn't "cause" that. Globalists and their propaganda machines set the world's agenda.

    Naw, the idiots who hedged their bets on a random Chinese virus being the perfect globalist scheme, even as it got their friends and family killed, is what lead to the emergency shut down of society. And that's what pissess me off.

    Covid is a disease that does not discriminate. Rich or poor, doing absolutely nothing to stop it put a huge burden on people who were already living paycheck to paycheck, doing the dirtiest jobs that no one else wanted to do.

    There are much more plausible conspiracies out there. Like big corporations refusing to pay taxes, or overthrowing foreign governments to seize their oil. But wearing a mask on your face is not the equivalent of slavery or a secret plot to support Israel. Again, the conspiracy theorists all hedged their bets on the wrong agenda, and the results are literally millions of people dead because they thought it was a "harmless flu". Was it worth it?

    That is the rhetoric of a leftist.

    Leftists were advocating open borders. By supporting unlimited movement, they brought foreign diseases to our shores, and now anti-vaxxers are the ones defending letting viruses stay here. This pandemic is actually a lesson to how Nationalism should be used to save lives.

    I don't want my government inviting sick foreigners into my country without at least quarantining them for 2 weeks. If anyone refuses to follow that, then ban them from ever entering.

    [–]Yin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    It actually does line up with the evidence.

    This video touches upon what should be obvious to anyone who understands even rudimentary statistical patterns of natural herd immunity forming in a virus like this:

    https://brandnewtube.com/watch/a-urgent-message-from-professor-sucharit-bhakdi_895vxLrSVgHYH7y.html

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    India is a case model of why this is wrong.

    The government thought the pandemic was over in 2021 and completely loosened restrictions. Except the virus did not actually disappear but even mutated. The country was completely overwhelmed until new restrictions and foreign aid arrived to help quell the situation.

    India lost thousands of lives in this process when it all could have been prevented. Wait for most adults to be vaccinated first before throwing away your social gathering laws.

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

      No it isn't. India is a population of 1.4 billion people.

      India was able to handle the pandemic well despite their massive population. It was at the exact moment they lifted all restrictions prematurely did they plunge their own nation into hellfire.

      That's what viruses of this nature do. That's common. Strong strains of this virus tend to die out quickly because they aren't transmitted as much and kill off the small percent of people who can't handle them. Weaker strains emerge. The passage of time is important until saturation is achieved.

      The government had no business lifting all those restrictions when an even nastier strain was right around the corner. It is pure madness to suggest all those people had to die when India never even broke the same records prior to lockdown. The highest deaths were only 1,000 people a day back in Sept 2020. When the lockdowns were lifted, that number skyrocketed to 4,000 deaths a day in May 2021.

      Those people have nothing to do with whether or not others take the "vaccine". Those thousands of lives don't outweigh the lives of billions of people to not have medical tyranny and globalist control schemes ("covid passports") forced upon them. Civil liberties are more important and you have the option of injecting yourself with an experiment if that makes you erroneously feel safer. Almost everyone has natural resistance and developed natural immunity if they had covid. The vast majority of people who had it didn't even know they had it but retain immunity and the major fears over asymptomatic spreading turned out to be wrong.

      This is some depressing stuff to read man. India had absolutely nothing to gain, but everything to lose by dropping those restrictions in April 2021. I'm waiting for you to even show me evidence that Indians were somehow happier, when crematoriums were forced to burn bodies at max capacity, because they had no where else to put them.

      [–][deleted]  (10 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

        Sensationalist. If I wrote headlines and was motivated to make you panic, you'd be the type to believe just about anything with the statistical trick of turning mole hills into mountains. I bet you thought all of the "hospital at capacity" headline scares months ago in the US were true too. They weren't. Many of the hospitals in those headlines weren't anywhere near capacity. This isn't surprising, given the same set of normies of today who once would've believed in the "wacky weed" pandemonium scares.

        So which picture do you consider fake? The Canadian jet that was forced to airlift ventilators to India?

        https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/canada-rushing-in-25000-vials-of-remdesivir-350-ventilators-to-india/articleshow/82429042.cms

        Or the European Union doing the exact same?

        https://www.reuters.com/world/india/eu-send-aid-india-it-struggles-with-coronavirus-2021-04-25/

        The situation deteriorated in India because some idiot bought into your idea that "no restrictions" is somehow better than actually keeping your own nation safe from a new deadly strain that was around the corner.

        India is 1.4 billion people. I will keep repeating this because the concept of "per capita" is pretty important.

        And in that per capita number, there's no such thing as unlimited hospitals. Once cases went up, thousands of Indians were being turned away because not enough beds or doctors could actually care for them.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56919924

        Stop trying to control the lives of 1.4 billion people, nay 7.6 billion people. Go get your booster as many times as they tell you to. Jump as high as they say. Stay unquestioning of the narrative and the larger herding at play.

        People died because of the anti-vaxx movement pushing crappy libertarian ideas that don't even benefit the people they think they're trying to save. In every scenario, the response to covid denial was always pyres full of dead bodies.

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

          Characterizing anything in India's context as a "libertarian idea" is an erroneous trope.

          That's not what I said.

          India is not a libertarian country. But removing all restrictions that were meant to keep a population safe is indeed a retarded belief tied to anti-government extremists and other anarchist movements because a portion of a population will always refuse to control themselves in times of emergencies.

          And the results are predictable everytime. Mass gatherings, lead to outbreaks. Infected people refuse to isolate and they continue to get others sick. They don't stop until the government literally forces them to behave a certain way or face punishment.

          Different regions require different responses and adaptations.

          Have you ever been to India? Do you even comprehend their hygienic behavioral differences? (1) Most of India has third-world conditions and is medically inferior compared to the US. (2) Hygienic behaviors of most people in India are extremely worse (extremely worse is a gross understatement) than of those in the US. (3) Population density.

          India already had all of this at the start of the pandemic, yet they still weren't suffering at the same levels we saw back in April & May of this year. There's no dignity in killing your neighbors with your selfishness, and all it does is prompt even tougher lockdowns than the last.

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

            Asymptomatic people have immunity and develop immunity. Covid is not well transmitted asymptomatically, contrary to what was originally assumed.

            They did not have immunity. People got off the planes without ever being quarantined. They took the virus with them and spread it their own communities. That is why the situation exists. They all needed to stay in China before being allowed back home.

            This virus has the pattern of being a short term spike in higher nuisance then eventually being less of a nuisance than the flu ever was.

            No, it's still a nuisance. That's why we still have outbreaks everywhere that didn't reach majority vaccinations yet. And now the people who are getting sick are majority unvaccinated.

            The globalist scheme already exists irrespective of the virus's severity or origin stories. The scheme is called seizing an opportunity, as they wrote about how they would use a pandemic to leverage power: the scheme.

            There was nothing to seize. Covid could have been a disease the world would have forgotten by now if we asked every infected individual to stay where they are and not congregate next to regular people. In reality, anti-vaxx people only helped globalism because you fought common sense every part of the way. A disease is not a joke. Let the grown ups look after society first, before exercising your right to cough and spit on people.

            You're ignoring the root causes of those "conspiracies": international central banking globalists, i.e. the banking institutions who fund communist grunts to convince the public of enacting a two-tier system that eliminates upward mobility. You are a pawn for the very evil you pretend to care about fighting.

            The root cause has nothing to do with a virus. Globalism would still exist, without the pervasive idea we must sacrifice our own health and safety to stop it.

            You keep using this leftist rhetoric. You're not getting the results you seek. You're embarrassing yourself.

            If you think that's Leftism, then you're going to be disappointed to learn that all forms of public safety follow the same idea. For example, do you also believe it's a Leftist plot to wear seatbelts as well? And when kids die in a car crash, you're going to blame them for being in the vehicle?

            A large portion of deaths marked "covid deaths" aren't causally linked to covid, yet they are marked "covid deaths" nonetheless to amplify the panic.

            What else are they going to be linked to? And why do the deaths line up with Hospitals being forced to mass bury their patients when cases where the highest? Do you really think a thousand people decided to show up one day and have heart attacks in front of a hospital? It doesn't make sense.

            That isn't true. Your fear is palpable but unfounded and statistically inflated. Your illogical leaps and ignorance are useful for enacting control schemes and nothing more.

            Anti-vaxxers are high off their own libertarian supply that they really believe the best answer to everything is to do nothing. The worst kind of advice anyone can give, because it leads to a society with no laws or punishment.

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              That's how a virus transmits.

              Why are we letting a virus inside our country in the first place?

              Building natural immunity and rejecting tyranny (including medical tyranny) is more important. You are welcome to be a guinea pig.

              If you haven't realized it yet, vaccines already perform that job of providing immunity without endangering the community via superspreader events.

              Irrelevant considering they aren't reporting the truth, with their faulty statistical propaganda.

              Who are "they"? And update your sources that doesn't write include frivolous stuff like "experimental vaccines" in their paragraph.

              Here is a better explanation for why there are still vaccine deaths. It's because of their age.

              https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts

              Two people under 50 and more than 100 over-50s have died of Covid after being fully vaccinated, official figures for England show, as experts said the jabs were working as expected amid surging infection rates attributed to the Delta variant. Public Health England (PHE) figures show that between 1 February and 21 June this year, there were 118 deaths in people who had had both vaccine doses, 116 of them over 50. Among over-50s who died due to the Delta variant in that period, nearly half had been fully vaccinated while just 21 unvaccinated people under the age of 50 died. This is expected to be due to the “very strong risk-gradient with age”, said Sir David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge.

              That's categorically false. The hysterical response and control schemes they're putting in place (covid passports, restrictions) have long been a dream scenario they've wanted to accelerate globalist tyranny. Their propaganda has done a number on you, as the simple Operation Lockstep scheme predicted it would.

              Except these passports do not impose restrictions on your race or political beliefs. You could literally be Heinrich Himmler and still get a Covid Passport because they're not screening for Nazis, but a disease.

              Non sequitor and laughable analogy. Seat belts, whether or not laws exist for enforcing them, do not pose a direct path to medical tyranny trying to pressure people into injecting experiments and worse yet paving the path for future fast-tracking excommunication from civilization when anything worse comes down the pipeline that people wisely want to refrain from.

              How do you know? I'm confident seatbelts exist because they're part of a Satanic ritual. Everytime a seatbelt clicks, it records your location and sends it off to a datafarm somewhere.

              Anything can path to "tyranny" if you think hard enough. It's a question of why would something meant to improve our lives fall under that conspiracy, if we're also taught Globalists want to hurt us?

              I will blame globalist media and low IQ parents for pushing the "vax" on their children who are statistically at near zero risk of covid but at much higher risk of harm from the "vaccines". Read some of their cases: https://thecovidblog.com/ and https://medicalkidnap.com/ Or stay ignorant.

              For every "bad" vaccine story, I can literally show you pictures of struggling Covid survivors or mass burials of bodies in Iran.

              You will first have to learn the difference between correlation and causation. Dying and having covid at the same time are two different things. Having heart failure or cancer or pneumonia (on its own) or any other compounding fatal cause of death, while having covid at the same time, is not an indication that covid had above 0% causal linkage. Establishing causality is hard. The fact that everyone is in such a rush to tally up deaths under the covid umbrella makes it obvious that covid death statistics are inflated. Outside of the world of covid, medical cases are constantly wrongly diagnosed and death falsely linked. In cases where there is death and covid, the person may easily be one of the people who has natural resistance to it given the rate of the general population who has resistance.

              Covid is what pushed these people to the brink of death. That's the point. There was a higher chance these people would have lived if they didn't also contract the disease later in their life. And this once again shows the craziness of antivaxxers.

              So you know your best friend or family member has another illness? Why rush up to his or her face and contaminate them with another disease instead of keeping your distance? This is what we call "psychopathy".

              No. You are straw-manning because straw-manning is the only way you can portray people who recognize that you are repeating propaganda. There are plenty of responses. I've never heard of anyone say "Do nothing". Personally, I would recommend you keep a healthy lifestyle, wash your hands, and be mindful of yourself, family, friends. Develop good habits. If someone is symptomatic, self-isolate within reason. This is the same advice I would give for health in general with the flu and common cold. And last but not least, don't assume that mainstream globalist media is on your side and telling you the truth. They usually aren't. And usually the narrators don't know it. They're as much mental victims as anyone else using the propaganda term "anti-vaxxers" unironically.

              If only it was possible to live a healthy lifestyle around other people who are unhealthy and lack self control to stop their illnesses from spreading to other people. You even say people with symptoms should "self isolated within reason" but who is going to enforce that? Especially if that same person denies they have a cold and they'll just call you "cuck" when they feel like sneezing and rubbing their hands all over you.

              This is why your approach fails. There are in fact, real assholes in life who get off to the idea that no laws or punishment should ever exist. And once they run lose in society, it always end in chaos for those who try to be a good citizen and look after themselves, but are clearly outpowered by the thugs who chase them down.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                Closing borders is important especially at a time when less is known about the virus's behaviors.

                Yes, but the real purpose of closing borders is that it forces foreigners to make a choice. Either follow the rules of the host nation, or go somewhere else because they wont let them in.

                Dealing with obtaining natural herd immunity is a superior option over accelerating global tyranny and forcing experiments on to people who don't want to risk being subject to them (and for good reasons that are being censored). You can't hide from covid forever. Fortunately, the vast majority of people already had natural resistance.

                Unvaccinated people are still dying and getting businesses shut down from outbreaks. Sorry, but it makes no sense from a moral or even financial perspective.

                No. You update your sources to non-globalist ones that include the fact that these are experimental "vaccines" in every mention of them.

                The experiment was over back in January 2021. Even after research trials, and people getting their two doses, the vaccines are destined to stay. But whatever, keep up the fight against them I guess.

                Yes. This virus is more likely to kill people of an older age, for a litany of age-related reasons.

                The gap in vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths is as high as 20x in 80 year olds. For vaccinated people under the age of 50, death was completely non-existent, but not for unvaccinated people.

                Source:

                https://i.imgur.com/XzI2Z5x.png

                https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-04-21/covid-19-vaccines-what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-for-each-age-group.html

                You outed yourself with that one. That is the most insidious and subversive comment about this topic I have yet to read on this site. These "passports" that you're now shilling for (shocker) do in fact impose restrictions on my personal beliefs, my political beliefs, and my freedom. I believe in not injecting whatever you or someone else tells me to and not creating a society of control-pressure straight out of some dystopian nightmare (your utopia fantasy). I believe in resisting your medical tyranny.

                I'm interested in how this passport thing is going to work. If every concert or movie theater actually opens up safely with no new cases, then tough luck I guess. It's easy to take health for granted, even though we only have one life.

                Only one of us wants to control the other. You. Your tyranny, and a greater form of evil you're shilling for, must be rejected.

                I'm not controlling your political beliefs. In fact, it is your right to be an anti-vaxxer.

                But when every establishment wants to keep their employees and customers safe, you don't have a right to be a community hazard and continue to shut them down from infection. It's no different from refusing a seriously ill person from a restaurant who refuses to stop coughing. It's just not worth carrying the risk.

                Then don't wear a seatbelt. If you were to believe that and feel strongly about that, I am likely, merely for your sake, help you advocate for your swift and simple exemption (and not at the cost of excommunication: respecting your freedom to). I may even help end seatbelt laws altogether and recognize the importance of erring on the side of greater choice, whether or not I think your scenario about seatbelts being a root accelerator of a global government tyranny. I am not interested in oppressing you. Whereas you are interested in oppressing me and millions of other people.

                Seatbelts save lives. So does wearing a helmet when motorcycling. It's not oppression, these devices literally exist to shield you from certain death. Tyranny is being forced to work in a sweatshop 24/7 and be deprived of food and water. Your life is no where close to being in that scenario. Even less is the idea that missing out on a concert or popcorn flick will make you a slave. No, you can still catch it at home by watching youtube.

                I don't stay ignorant about anything. I consume all information, though the most accurate information comes not from globalist media. I've seen dead bodies marked as "covid death", of which a certain percentage of them will be causally from covid. It's a pity more routines weren't done as a response to logically aid and temporarily isolate people in older age groups. Instead, henchmen like the DNC neoliberal New York City's Mayor Bill de Blasio intentionally placed covid patients into nursing homes, much like officials in Washington state and other states weren't taking obvious mitigation steps for the elderly. Stay ignorant of the negatives. Stay ignorant of the reasons why so many people want to refrain from being your experimental body. I'm sure it makes you feel good that only one side is being censored in mainstream platforms: the side of negatives. No one should be censored. You would rather side with globalist schemes and industrial merchants who have legal immunity and full mainstream censorship and propaganda working overtime for them, and an unlimited printing money press off the backs of nations to subsidize anything they release and force on to kids and adults alike. Worst of all you, will shill for their larger global tyranny.

                The globalists are just as likely shocked by the virus as I am. But unlike the people who live in Ivory Towers, I still have friends and family I care for and do not want to see them suffer through a deadly disease. I'm not about to throw that all away for a bogus theory that says leaving yourself completely exposed during a pandemic is somehow a good idea.

                It doesn't fail. Natural herd immunity like what we're seeing in the US was inevitable because of the characteristics of this virus: 1. almost all people have resistance and recover with immunity, 2. long immunity, 3. younger population exponentially less impacted, 4. flu-like transmission behavior. Older people are free to choose if they want to be among the vast majority of people in their respective age group who will survive the virus naturally, or if they want to take part in injecting themselves with various experiments after fully weighing the options and being exposed to non-censored information like the consenting adults they should be. Everyone should have that dignity. They can choose what they wish, including other methods. That's how sane responses occur: isolate (if the person chooses), choose their course of action, and let the rest of society who is almost all immune carry on and not ruin society and people's entire lives in all other facets unnecessarily (driving many more into suicide and addiction). Pushing this risk on to children who are nearly all immune is the worst evil.

                After 600,000 deaths, America is tired of waiting. It's too bad it turned political, but Trump being ousted is proof that the majority of people don't want to hear this advice anymore. I can hate Biden for a plethora of reasons, but Trump made the case that human health is not a joke, it's actually quite precious. Maybe a Republican politician will understand this and they can get elected next time.

                I'll remember your advocacy of this medical tyranny and globalist tyranny next time you ever dare to ask for sovereignty and choice over your own body.

                If I'm still alive in the future, then it means modern medicine helped to eradicate disease, that would have otherwise flourished in a world that tried to go "herd immunity" every time it sprung up.