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[–]NeoRail 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

All of this is just recycled tropes, there is little of substance here. For example, expressing a preference for Islam over Christianity - if the Table Talks are to be taken as a credible source - still does not refer to what he would have considered the optimal situation. Your understanding of the war is also pretty basic. Already in the early days of National Socialism Hitler said it in Mein Kampf that he planned to wage war on the Soviet Union - it's obvious that there are some states between the Soviets and Germany. His intention was to clear the way to Russia and then conquer it for Germany without interfering with Britain or France. This strategy was based on the accurate understanding that Britain and France could not afford to stop Germany from fighting the Soviet Union without imploding - which is what happened historically. Hitler expected this would mean he'd be given a carte blanche to deal with communism. This did not happen and only became clear at the outbreak of the world war. You can say that even attacking the Eastern European states was a bad idea, both morally and practically, but the 1930s were a different time - the nation-state still had a lot to offer as a free actor in world politics and the most powerful faction in Nazi Germany was the Pan-Germanic one, not the Pan-European one. To criticise the Nazis for being insufficiently pro-European is bizarre, especially given that they had the most comprehensive international system (SS volunteers and guest workers).

[–]Lugger[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

he planned to wage war on the Soviet Union ...

True. But he also wanted to take revenge on Entente powers like France and the UK and turn Germany into a new dominating European power — which he actually achieved before invading Russia in 1941.

His intention was to clear the way to Russia and then conquer it for Germany without interfering with Britain or France.

How could he have hoped to 'clear the way to Russia' — as in take control of Poland — without British interference if the Polacks had a pact with the Brits?

An act of aggression against Poland certainly meant the UK declaring war on Germany.

This strategy was based on the accurate understanding that Britain and France could not afford to stop Germany from fighting the Soviet Union without imploding which is what happened historically.

Not true.

Germany only managed to defeat the Brits and the French in 1940 campaign because they had signed a pact with Russia. It meant that they didn't have to fight on two fronts and could concentrate their efforts on the West.

I don't understand why you believe that France and Britain wouldn't have been able to crush Germany had Hitler decided to attack Russia first (assuming, for the sake of argument, that Germans somehow bypassed Poland) because a war on two fronts was one of Hitler's greatest (and justified) fears.

This did not happen and only became clear at the outbreak of the world war.

...started by Germany and Germany alone.

the most powerful faction in Nazi Germany was the Pan-Germanic one

I know. And it was the correct position to take, because Pan-Europeanism is cringe (but that's a topic for another thread).

I never criticized Hitler for not being Pan-European; I criticized him for placing the Arabs (non-whites) above Europeans.

especially given that they had the most comprehensive international system (SS volunteers and guest workers).

... which was also extremely cringeworthy.

SS went from being an (somewhat) elite fighting force to a dumpster made of poorly trained volunteer peasants from all around Europe who were only allowed to join the ranks because Germany was losing the war and needed as many troops as possible.

Just a handful of units like Leibstandarte managed to keep their elite status throughout the war.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

wanted to take revenge on Entente powers like France and the UK

You mean after they declared war on Germany? No, he didn't. All his thinking was East, wanting farmland and to quash the very real Bolshevik threat. Imagine a world where the Allied Powers supported Hitler. Supporting Hitler vs. Churchill/Franklin/Stalin is no brainer, unless you're Jewish, which is what all the hoopla is about. Hitler did not like the Jews but AFAIK merely wanted them to stop their fuckery in Germany and deport them. But of course Jews never do anything wrong so only a madman would have that idea.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

...started by Germany and Germany alone.

Britain and France declared war on Germany.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

True. But he also wanted to take revenge on Entente powers like France and the UK and turn Germany into a new dominating European power — which he actually achieved before invading Russia in 1941.

What are you talking about? Hitler had no intention to fight the old Entente, especially not in 1939.

How could he have hoped to 'clear the way to Russia' — as in take control of Poland — without British interference if the Polacks had a pact with the Brits?

They didn't at the time he wrote Mein Kampf and at any rate such a pact would have been unenforceable - that's why Poland ends up under Soviet occupation at the end of the war.

An act of aggression against Poland certainly meant the UK declaring war on Germany.

Not according to Ribbentrop.

I don't understand why you believe that France and Britain wouldn't have been able to crush Germany had Hitler decided to attack Russia first (assuming, for the sake of argument, that Germans somehow bypassed Poland) because a war on two fronts was one of Hitler's greatest (and justified) fears.

Because Hitler had no intention to fight France or Britain at all - he was hoping for a one on one war with the Soviet Union. The democratic powers couldn't have even declared war on Germany without some sort of defensive justification.

...started by Germany and Germany alone.

Germany started a war with Poland. Britain and France escalated that war into a world war. This is not an unimportant detail, it is crucial in order to understand German policy.

I know. And it was the correct position to take, because Pan-Europeanism is cringe (but that's a topic for another thread).

Fuck off lol.

I never criticized Hitler for not being Pan-European; I criticized him for placing the Arabs (non-whites) above Europeans.

Where did he do that, hm? Are you referring to his comments on Islam again? How do those comments "place Arabs above Europeans"?

... which was also extremely cringeworthy.

Zoomer on the internet calls international political army "cringe" - time to pack it up boys, nothing more to discuss.

SS went from being an (somewhat) elite fighting force to a dumpster made of poorly trained volunteer peasants from all around Europe who were only allowed to join the ranks because Germany was losing the war and needed as many troops as possible.

The last defenders of Berlin were Frenchmen of the Charlemagne division.

[–]Lugger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What are you talking about? Hitler had no intention to fight the old Entente, especially not in 1939.

In case you didn't know, Hitler wanted Germany to become the new European dominating power.

Well, 'revenge', like I said in the post, is probably an oversimplication, I agree.

They didn't at the time he wrote Mein Kampf and at any rate such a pact would have been unenforceable

Then why did you even bring this up when we were discussing 1933-1939 timeline?

Not according to Ribbentrop.

Who cares about Ribbentrop.

Poland had a pact with Britain, and his 'opinion', whatever it may be, can't change that fact.

The democratic powers couldn't have even declared war on Germany without some sort of defensive justification.

And they didn't want to — see my other replies in the thread.

Britain and France escalated that war into a world war.

Escalated?

They merely stayed true to their agreements with Poland.

Hitler knew about the pact and proceeded nonetheless — I'm hoping you know what this means.

This is not an unimportant detail

And neither is the one I just listed :)

How do those comments "place Arabs above Europeans"?

The guy said that the Arabs and (thanks to the other guy who posted the full quote) Chinese and Japanese would always be closer to Germans then French.

The way I see, it pretty much means that if he had to choose between saving a Louis the Frenchman and an Mohammed the Arab, he'd choose the latter.

Zoomer on the internet calls international political army "cringe" - time to pack it up boys, nothing more to discuss.

Come on maaaaaan, you can do better than that :P

The last defenders of Berlin were Frenchmen of the Charlemagne division.

Which doesn't refute my point at all.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

In case you didn't know, Hitler wanted Germany to become the new European dominating power.

If you think he needed to fight France and Britain in order to achieve that, you are vastly overestimating the resources of interwar Western Europe. Not to mention that your claim is disagreeable in the first place. I know that Hitler wanted colonies and lebensraum for Germany, but I can't remember him ever mentioning that he wanted Germany to "dominate" Europe.

Then why did you even bring this up when we were discussing 1933-1939 timeline?

Because the pact was entirely unenforceable during the 1933-1939 period.

Who cares about Ribbentrop.

Hitler, who was being advised by him.

Poland had a pact with Britain, and his 'opinion', whatever it may be, can't change that fact.

The pact was also suicidal, so most talented diplomats and statesmen assumed Britain was bluffing, as per usual.

And they didn't want to — see my other replies in the thread.

If they didn't want to, they wouldn't have. Simple, no? The real issue is that they never would have been able to mobilise the popular support for an explicitly aggressive campaign against Germany, which is why your two front fantasy has nothing to do with history.

Escalated? They merely stayed true to their agreements with Poland. Hitler knew about the pact and proceeded nonetheless — I'm hoping you know what this means.

They also had a treaty with Germany - you might know it, it's called the Versailles treaty. It obligated Germany to pay the Western powers reparations. Germany stopped paying reparations. The same treaty forbade German military buildup and the militarisation of the Rhineland. Germany did just that. The same treaty and some informal agreements with Italy also guaranteed the existence of Austria. Germany annexed Austria. The Allies also had alliances with Czechoslovakia. Germany dismembered Czechoslovakia even after the Munich agreement. Who could have expected that the democratic powers would actually fulfil their obligations to a pact with Poland at that point? That's the thing though, isn't it - they didn't fulfil those obligations either, since they failed to declare a war on the Soviet Union, not to mention the phoney war fiasco. Got any other intelligent comments to make on international diplomacy?

And neither is the one I just listed :)

Very kind of you, to show you my gratitude I decided to provide some context.

The guy said that the Arabs and (thanks to the other guy who posted the full quote) Chinese and Japanese would always be closer to Germans then French.

Politically, this is true. If you wish to contort that quote to some other meaning, you are free to do so, but few will find your interpretation agreeable.

The way I see, it pretty much means that if he had to choose between saving a Louis the Frenchman and an Mohammed the Arab, he'd choose the latter.

Given that Germany ended up at war with France and the Arabs ended up as informal allies of the Germans, it is not hard to imagine why that would be the case for the time period under consideration.

Come on maaaaaan, you can do better than that :P

I don't need to.

Which doesn't refute my point at all.

That is only to be expected, seeing as you have no real point - all you've got is inane whining about the quality of SS troops, though in all likelihood you yourself are probably obese and uneducated. Statistically speaking, it's quite likely. I provided that extra bit of information on the Charlemagne division for any observers who may be interested into the actual level of reliability and morale within the SS.

[–]Lugger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because the pact was entirely unenforceable during the 1933-1939 period.

But the history proved that it was, indeed, enforcable.

Hitler, who was being advised by him.

Well, in that case it means Hitler was even a bigger fool for blindly believing him.

The pact was also suicidal, so most talented diplomats and statesmen assumed Britain was bluffing, as per usual.

Care to elaborate how defending a country from aggression is "suicidal"?

The Brits were still the world's superpower by the time WW2 begun, in case you forgot.

If they didn't want to, they wouldn't have.

Exactly!

Finally, you seem to get.

They didn't want to and they didn't — Germany, predictably, turned out to be the aggressor.

They also had a treaty with Germany - you might know it, it's called the Versailles treaty. ...

I get your point, but you fail to consider the very fact you listed — that Germany had already broken multiple promises, and the Brits/French weren't always gonna tolerate the Moustache Man's bullshit.

And they didn't — Poland was the final straw.

The guy was basically playing with fire.

Very kind of you, to show you my gratitude I decided to provide some context.

And I once again returned the favor :)

all you've got is inane whining about the quality of SS troops

Whining?

More like acknowledging that by the end of the war the majority of SS divisions were of shit quality.

though in all likelihood you yourself are probably obese and uneducated

Please don't try to insult me again — you're too dense and naive for that :)

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But the history proved that it was, indeed, enforcable.

You mean to tell me that Britain and France preserved the territorial and political integrity of Poland?

Well, in that case it means Hitler was even a bigger fool for blindly believing him.

Ribbentrop was his foreign policy expert with connections in Britain, bro. Who would you have him rather believe?

Care to elaborate how defending a country from aggression is "suicidal"?

I refer you to the dissolution of the British Empire, the foreign debt it incurred as a result of the war and the rationing system it was forced to maintain all the way into the fifties.

The Brits were still the world's superpower by the time WW2 begun, in case you forgot.

No, not even close. They were powerful, but America had them considerably outmatched. At any case, they did not have the resources to contain Germany.

They didn't want to and they didn't — Germany, predictably, turned out to be the aggressor.

Don't you get tired of pretending to be stupid? Germany did not declare war on Britain or France. They declared war on Germany, because they chose to do so. The Polish guarantee was merely the justification they used. This is easily demonstrable because they disregarded a whole assortment of treaties and guarantees that they had given to other states prior to the war.

I get your point, but you fail to consider the very fact you listed — that Germany had already broken multiple promises, and the Brits/French weren't always gonna tolerate the Moustache Man's bullshit. And they didn't — Poland was the final straw. The guy was basically playing with fire.

States aren't people. They don't get upset or keep count of the number of times they've been wronged. They act according to their interests. The Allies backstabbed all of their dependants, including even Poland itself which they sold out to the Soviets. It's not that Hitler exhausted the patience of the Allies at Poland - it's rather that after acting wisely for most of the interwar period, the Allies finally decided to self-destruct and drag Germany down with them.

More like acknowledging that by the end of the war the majority of SS divisions were of shit quality.

"By the end of the war" it's difficult to describe any German division as a fitting match for enemy troops, which as I said early makes your "point" quite inane.

[–]Lugger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You mean to tell me that Britain and France preserved the territorial and political integrity of Poland?

By being 'enforcable' I meant the fact the the Brits, in the end, stayed true to their promises and declared war on Germany.

Not sure where you got that 'political integrity' take.

Ribbentrop was his foreign policy expert with connections in Britain, bro.

Should've chosen better foreign experts, than.

That's, of course, if we consider for a moment that his advise regarding Poland had any influence over Hitler.

I'm 100% sure he would've started the war anyway, given his previous actions and what we know about him and his ultimate goals.

I refer you to the dissolution of the British Empire, the foreign debt it incurred as a result of the war and the rationing system it was forced to maintain all the way into the fifties.

I doubt they considered long-term effects.

And even if they did, they most likely figured out that stopping Germany was more important.

No, not even close. They were powerful, but America had them considerably outmatched.

Not even close?

Yeah, it's true that British power — economic, military, whatever had already been waning by the time the war began.

But they still were an incredibly strong state, and there's this:

At any case, they did not have the resources to contain Germany.

Wrong, as always.

Germany was always short on resources, and it owes lasting for so long in the war to occupying pretty much all the Europe and exploiting its natural and industrial resources.

Their only hope was quickly defeating the Brits and their allies and pushing the former to the sea — which they did in 1940.

Germany did not declare war on Britain or France.

Germany invaded a state which was allied with those countries, and this is pretty much the same as declaring a war on them.

because they chose to do so

And they chose to do so this time because they were tired of Hitler's lies and broken promises; they figured out that he needed to be stopped because the bastard would just keep breaking treaties and acting aggressively.

This is easily demonstrable because they disregarded a whole assortment of treaties and guarantees that they had given to other states prior to the war.

You know what's funny?

You're this close to the truth, but you either ignore it or don't want to accept it.

Yes, Hitler broke every single previous treaty and the allies did nothing.

They believed that he would eventually stop, but he just kept screwing them and demanding new shit.

And the only reason they let him walk free with the previous ones was the fact that Allies didn't want another war in Europe to start, so they kept hoping that, maybe, this time Hitler will finally be satisfied.

...until 1939, when they figured out that he needed to be put down like the savage beast he was.

And still, you've only got Hitler's arrogance to blame for the fact that he believed in Britain cucking on its promises.

it's rather that after acting wisely for most of the interwar period, the Allies finally decided to self-destruct and drag Germany down with them.

You're not making any sense.

Allies fulfilling Hitler's demands was not 'acting wise', it was acting extremely stupid because it allowed Germany to gain more industrial power and time to fuel its military.

If the Allies decided to invade Germany, say, in 1936 (let's for the sake of argument assume that), they would have crushed it like a worm.

And considering the fact that Hitler was hellbent on starting a war, it would've been a wise decision — better kill the vicious beast when it's weak and starving than when it's at full strength.

Wait, your argument sounds so stupid that I need to clarify: do you really think it was 'wise' to surrender territories to Germany and let it gain strength only to fight the empowered Germany later?

If you think that declaring war on Germany after the invasion of Poland was stupid, than what do you think was wise?

Let them swallow it whole and become stronger again?

I'm really hoping I'm mistaken about you, I mean, I like you, but here you outdid yourself.

"By the end of the war" it's difficult to describe any German division as a fitting match for enemy troops, which as I said early makes your "point" quite inane.

Yeah, my 'by the end of the war' remark was pretty vague and I should've been more clear.

Fine. I meant by this mid 1944 period and onwards.

(yeah, it's not exactly 'by the end of the war', but then again, I apologize for not being clear enough)

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

By being 'enforcable' I meant the fact the the Brits, in the end, stayed true to their promises and declared war on Germany. Not sure where you got that 'political integrity' take.

When you provide a security guarantee to a country, it is typically expected that you will be trying to secure the country rather than pick a fight with some third party. Was Polish security achieved by the end of the war? Moreover, you still have not addressed why the Allies refused to declare war on the Soviet Union when the Red Army invaded Poland shortly after the Germans. Did they honour the promise they made to Poland? What about their other promise to send in troops into Germany as soon as war broke out, rather than leave Poland to be crushed by Germany as they did historically during the phoney war?

Should've chosen better foreign experts, than. That's, of course, if we consider for a moment that his advise regarding Poland had any influence over Hitler. I'm 100% sure he would've started the war anyway, given his previous actions and what we know about him and his ultimate goals.

A war with Poland? Maybe, though only the British guarantee made that necessary. A world war? No, not at all.

I doubt they considered long-term effects. And even if they did, they most likely figured out that stopping Germany was more important.

Stopping Germany was more important than not destroying yourself? Why? Plenty of people thought otherwise - for example, there was the "Why die for Danzig?" campaign. Certainly, the politicians had a pretty good idea of what a world war entails, given the devastating shock the first world war gave to the British empire just twenty years prior. The Polish guarantee was suicidal.

Not even close? Yeah, it's true that British power — economic, military, whatever had already been waning by the time the war began. But they still were an incredibly strong state, and there's this:

Incredibly strong by what standard? They were just another European imperial state. There's nothing particularly outstanding about interwar Britain. America was in a class of its own, whereas all the European powers were already heavily reduced in strength as a result of the first war.

Wrong, as always. Germany was always short on resources, and it owes lasting for so long in the war to occupying pretty much all the Europe and exploiting its natural and industrial resources. Their only hope was quickly defeating the Brits and their allies and pushing the former to the sea — which they did in 1940.

Germany "owes" lasting as long as it did in the war to its rearmament programme and the natural strength of its state and people. Neither France nor Britain could hold Germany alone and that much was already proven in the first war. The difference is that while Britain and France burned through a massive portion of their resources, Germany's strength was more or less the same as it had very little to begin with, given its lack of colonial possessions and external markets. No pressure by the British or the French could direct German policy, even if they could muster the will to exert such pressure, which they failed to do.

Germany invaded a state which was allied with those countries, and this is pretty much the same as declaring a war on them.

Good god, that's insane. You mean to tell me that Britain and France were at war with Germany for a whole year after the invasion of Czechoslovakia and no one did anything at all? History sure is strange.

And they chose to do so this time because they were tired of Hitler's lies and broken promises; they figured out that he needed to be stopped because the bastard would just keep breaking treaties and acting aggressively.

You've not only ignored my point, but you've also written up a list of accusations that apply equally well to the Allies. They betrayed several of the countries they had promised to protect and they aggressively tried to encircle Germany in every conceivable way just for the sake of frustrating German foreign policy.

You know what's funny? You're this close to the truth, but you either ignore it or don't want to accept it. Yes, Hitler broken every single previous treaty and the allies did nothing. They believed that he would eventually stop, but he just kept screwing them and demanding new shit. And the only reason they let him walk free with the previous ones was the fact that Allies didn't want another war in Europe to start, so they kept hoping that, maybe, this time Hitler will finally be satisfied. ...until 1939, when they figured out that he needed to be put down like the savage beast he was. And still, you've only got Hitler's arrogance to blame for the fact that he believed in Britain cucking on its promises.

Are you really this naive? How do you reconcile the belief that the Allies were some sort of moral crusaders that just HAD to oppose Hitler, BUT at the same time sold out a bunch of their allies to Hitler in the name of peace, BUT they ran out of patience at Poland, for some reason? It's such a contorted way of thinking about the war. The much more likely explanation is that the Allies wanted war with Germany far more than vice versa, but were unable to procure the necessary internal unity to prosecute such a war until Poland. The Polish guarantee was merely an instrument to justify the war to the citizenry, nothing more than that. This is the reason why they engage in the phoney war, why they ignore the Soviet invasion of Poland and why they abandon Poland to indefinite occupation in the postwar period - because the French and British statesmen genuinely didn't care about Poland, even remotely, but rather aimed to wage war on Germany.

You're not making any sense. Allies fulfilling Hitler's demands was not 'acting wise', it was acting extremely stupid because it allowed Germany to gain more industrial power and time to fuel its military. If the Allies decided to invade Germany, say, in 1936 (let's for the sake of argument assume that), they would have crushed it like a worm. And considering the fact that Hitler was hellbent on starting a war, it would've been a wise decision — better kill the vicious beast when it's weak and starving than when it's at full strength. Wait, your argument sounds so stupid that I need to clarify: do you really think it was 'wise' to surrender territories to Germany and let it gain strength only to fight the empowered Germany later? If you think that declaring war on Germany after the invasion of Poland was stupid, than what do you think was wise? Let them swallow it whole and become stronger again? I'm really hoping I'm mistaken about you, I mean, I like you, but here you outdid yourself.

The Allies couldn't have possibly declared war on Germany in 1936, because their citizens would not have bothered to die for the sake of liberal warmongering without the necessary propaganda and manipulation of public opinion. If we consider the self-interest of the democratic powers, the wisest course of action would have been to let the Germans pursue their expansion policy towards the Soviet Union, since France and Britain only stood to lose from another conflict with Germany. Instead, the Allies chose to pursue the so-called policy of appeasement which gave them time to justify war against Germany to the public and to rearm. This course of action, of course, was still suicidal, but also intelligent insofar as that is possible in this context. The Allies started the war as early as they possibly could, they simply had no other real opportunities to do so. Even the Munich agreement was predicated on the basis of self-determination, which the Allies themselves had vigorously championed just a couple decades prior and by the time the Germans occupied all of Czechoslovakia, the Allied reason for intervention had basically been neutralised.

[–]Lugger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've grown tired of this discussion and this will be my last reply.

Moreover, you still have not addressed why the Allies refused to declare war on the Soviet Union

Because I've already covered exactly the same question in this thread replying to some guy.

What about their other promise to send in troops into Germany as soon as war broke out, rather than leave Poland to be crushed by Germany as they did historically during the phoney war?

Phoney War is another topic and I don't want to touch here, if I'm not mistaken they refused to invade it from the West because they were disorientiered/relied on defensive doctrine or something like that, can't answer for sure.

Germany "owes" lasting as long as it did in the war to its rearmament programme and the natural strength of its state and people.

...made possible by occupying practically the entire Europe — I'm talking, of course, about post-1940 Germany when the Brits had already tucked tail and retreated from mainland Europe.

You don't think natural resources and factories emerge out of thin air, right?

Good god, that's insane. You mean to tell me that Britain and France were at war with Germany for a whole year after the invasion of Czechoslovakia and no one did anything at all? History sure is strange.

Once again you misinterpreted my words after pulling them out of context.

Obviously, by that I meant only the Polish pact, which stated that Britain would be forced to declare the war on Germany if it started an invasion.

You've not only ignored my point, but you've also written up a list of accusations that apply equally well to the Allies.

They don't "apply equally well to the Allies" because they were the ones cucking to Germany and fuilfilling its wishes.

They betrayed several of the countries they had promised to protect

Unfortunately, it's true, and I've already explained why.

and they aggressively tried to encircle Germany in every conceivable way just for the sake of frustrating German foreign policy.

By letting Germans shit on all the treaties (including Versailles) and gain new lands?

Are you really this naive? ...

What you've written is that paragraph is just a list of wild guesses which cannot be proven, so you'll forgive me for not replying to this.

because their citizens would not have bothered to die for the sake of liberal warmongering without the necessary propaganda

Here we go again...

the wisest course of action would have been to let the Germans pursue their expansion policy towards the Soviet Union

How is letting Germany grab a huge pile of Soviet land and its enormous natural resources wise?

You realise that had they really allowed Germans to invade Russia and succeed, Germany would've been unstoppable?

Instead, the Allies chose to pursue the so-called policy of appeasement which gave them time to justify war against Germany to the public and to rearm. ...

More wild guesses.

You believe that they were only buying time to brainwash the population and prepare it for the war, I believe that they were genuinely trying to avoid the conflict.

Unless a rock solid proof is brough in, I don't think we can come to an agreement on this one.

Alright, this is it for today.

Since this is my last comment, I dont expect you to reply.

Anyway, I thank you for this discussion — I really do — and wish you good luck, bro.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never criticized Hitler for not being Pan-European; I criticized him for placing the Arabs (non-whites) above Europeans.

From Albert Speer's memoir -- which, again, is a dubious source, self serving and should be taken with skepticism but let's just assume it's true.

Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.