Does a young girl who has her boobs removed make her into a boy?

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[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Personal freedom is also in the mix. Perhaps it harms your fragile mental health to see fat people in tight pants, but that doesn't necessarily mean there should be a law against fat people wearing tight pants.

[–]Jiminy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

At least tight pants can be removed, won't effect a child for life

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You just completely changed arguments, from "my own mental health can't handle seeing trans people walking down the street" to "gender reassignment affects a child for life."

Of course it affects a child for life. The question is whether the effect will be a positive, negative, or neutral effect on the child's mental health.

[–]Jiminy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There's two separate good arguments for outlawing that's all that means. When there are lots of good reasons for something but helps an argument.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Oh, yeah, great arguments. One of them is that you're too much of a pussy to handle seeing trans people, and the other one is that gender reassignment affects people for life just like it's supposed to.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What have you to say about all the people who were coerced into transitioning and later regret it? I don't have an issue with trans people, but I think that is a decision that should only be made by an adult and their healthcare provider. I don't think it should ever be an option for anyone under the age of 18.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If someone was coerced into transitioning, that's terrible and the doctor should lose their license and be sued into oblivion. Coercing someone into surgery is unconscionable.

I don't think it should ever be an option for anyone under the age of 18.

I think different people are different.

There are people out there who start to question their gender in high school. They think "Well, I was into ponies and princesses when I was a little girl, but now I've met my friend Knox, and Knox is non-binary, and I think I identify with them more than I've ever identified with anyone, and now I'm thinking I'm non-binary too, and maybe I should get on testosterone or get top surgery."

This person should absolutely not be given any medical treatment before the age of 18. They should express themselves solely with fashion and just see if their brain sorts it all out. There's a very strong chance that any medical option would be something they'd regret and that would scar them for life.

But there are also people out there who never questioned their gender. There are people who were four years old when they started saying "I'm not a boy, I'm a girl," and six years old when they started saying "I don't WANT this weiner, it makes me feel like a boy and I HATE feeling like a boy." People whose parents were not even supportive, let alone coercive, but who were so horrified by their bodies that they honestly didn't care about that.

That's rarer than the first case, but it is out there. Severe lifelong gender dysphoria. And in that rare case, prepubescent intervention could very well be the only thing that can give the patient any chance of a happy life.

I think it's important that doctors decide on a case-by-case basis and that doctors have adequate oversight to ensure they're motivated solely by the well-being of the patient and not by either financial or ideological concerns.

I do not think that politicians should say "All people are basically the same, so here's the way doctors must universally practice medicine." These politicians have no idea what they're talking about. They have no medical training. They're basically saying "What's a few ruined lives to me if it nets me a few thousand votes?"

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But there are also people out there who never questioned their gender. There are people who were four years old when they started saying "I'm not a boy, I'm a girl," and six years old when they started saying "I don't WANT this weiner, it makes me feel like a boy and I HATE feeling like a boy." People whose parents were not even supportive, let alone coercive, but who were so horrified by their bodies that they honestly didn't care about that.

Again, a child is not capable of making those choices. Kids don't understand gender, they may "feel" like the opposite sex because society has told them that boys do and like type A things and girls do and like type B things. When in fact that both boys and girls can do and like both type A & B things. Tom girls are a thing, so are effeminate boys. It doesn't necessarily mean they need to change their sex in a permanent matter. Society attempts to coerce people into things every day, whether that is through peer pressure or advertising. Hell even children's cartoons are now being scrutinized for doing it as well.

You really can't say that any child has the mental faculties to be able to make these types of decisions, because they don't. You don't find it the least bit odd, that this has only really been happening since they started putting LGBTQTIA++ in all the school curriculum recently? I do, because I am looking at the bigger picture. Kids emulate their environments, that is how they learn to grow as adults, that is a very human like thing to do, so in that regards, yes all kids are the same no matter their social, economic or racial backgrounds.

So if all children are the same in that regard, then common sense would dictate that the countries whose schools who have added this type of teachings to their curriculums are going to have an influx of kids who think they are non-binary or trans. Because they don't want to be left out. What kid do you know can honestly explain in their own words, what they think body dysphoria is. And I am not talking about them repeating what they hear, or what they have read, I mean in their own words. Because I have asked and talked to a lot of these kids and they always have the same exact answer. That tells me that they are just parroting what they have been told or what they have heard or seen others say. If kids are as different as you say they are, then shouldn't their stories be different and not identical?

I just find this all to convenient that pharmaceutical companies are now making a ton of money off these kids and their parents, because they are telling parents, "Hey if you don't want your kid to die they should take this drug." That drug was created as a form of chemical castration. It has irreversible side effects such as sterilization and causes endocrine issues in adults as they age. You can't just stop taking hormone blockers and expect to go back to being a boy or a girl, it doesn't work that way, and people who say it does are being dishonest.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You really can't say that any child has the mental faculties to be able to make these types of decisions, because they don't. You don't find it the least bit odd, that this has only really been happening since they started putting LGBTQTIA++ in all the school curriculum recently? I do, because I am looking at the bigger picture. Kids emulate their environments, that is how they learn to grow as adults, that is a very human like thing to do, so in that regards, yes all kids are the same no matter their social, economic or racial backgrounds.

It's been happening since time immemorial. It's just that it used to be extremely rare. It was like 1 in 20,000 people and most people lived their lives without ever hearing about a case.

I think there's no question that culture is increasing the number of people who are questioning their gender as teens. I personally know two teenagers who, in my opinion, are just playing games with gender and culture and should definitely not receive any medical intervention.

But that doesn't mean that culture invented the disorder, only that it's amplifying it. People like Christine Jorgensen, the World War 2 soldier who got sexual reassignment surgery in 1952, didn't do it because it was trendy. They did it because it was the only way they could possibly see to be happy.

And I am perfectly open to the idea that, perhaps one time in 20,000, early intervention will mean the difference between a worthwhile life and a miserable one.

I just find this all to convenient that pharmaceutical companies are now making a ton of money off these kids and their parents, because they are telling parents, "Hey if you don't want your kid to die they should take this drug." That drug was created as a form of chemical castration. It has irreversible side effects such as sterilization and causes endocrine issues in adults as they age. You can't just stop taking hormone blockers and expect to go back to being a boy or a girl, it doesn't work that way, and people who say it does are being dishonest.

I have similar concerns - that doctors will prescribe for either financial or ideological reasons. I just don't think that a ban is the appropriate response. I think doctors need more oversight, but they need oversight by doctors, not by politicans who don't actually know anything about the issue and are just tossing red meat to their base.

And this:

Again, a child is not capable of making those choices. Kids don't understand gender

That's ideology, not reality. Our culture tells us that people under 18 can't understand anything and can't make choices, yet our personal experience tells each and every one of us that's a complete load of horseshit.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

There should in fact be a law against fat people wearing yoga pants. The irony in and of itself should be enough. But to see a 500 pound person in Yoga pants is in fact something I wish could be unseen.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I know this is all, like, said in an amusing tone, but I just want to share an experience...

Back in 2013 or so, I went to Quizno's for a sandwich, and there was a woman standing in line who was obviously in the early stages of chemotherapy. Her hair was coming out in clumps like she had some horrible skin disease and her eyes were sunken and she looked fucking hideous. Like, my stomach actually churned a bit and I left the restaurant to wait for her to leave before I went in and ordered.

Still, as fucking gross as she was, I think it would be kinda awful if the police showed up and cuffed her and said "You're being charged with Too Ugly For Public."

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But she doesn't have any control over cancer, you do however have control over not being 500 pounds, and you have a choice in what clothes you wear, not similar at all LOL

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think that's a pretty teenaged way to look at the world. Stressful life circumstances plus a higher than usual appetite are going to lead to weight gain, where you simply don't have time to worry about whether you're aesthetically pleasing to other people - it's forty-eighth on your priority list.

Very few people with a job and a baby are going to try to jam "count calories and exercise an hour a day" into their lives. It's too much.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No that is a responsible way to look at the world. People can control what they put in their mouths. I being a black gay female has had some stresses in my life. I'm not overweight, yet it runs in my family. I eat healthy and I'm not lazy. You're making excuses for people's lack of self control and laziness. You don't have to count calories, I've never dieted a day in my life. I eat what I want, but I do it in moderation. I also have never set foot in a gym, but I love to go on walks in my free time. I take the stairs when it's an option instead of the elevator. I raised my two younger sisters because my mom was a alcoholic, plus put myself through school to get a good job. It can be done, people just need to stop being lazy is the problem. There is NO good excuse to be fat, aside from a damn medical condition, and I think you know that.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

People can control lots of things. Anyone can abstain from porn and masturbation; anyone can work fourteen-hour days to maximize their earning potential; anyone can learn to play the guitar; anyone can learn a second and third language. Anyone can abstain from all dangerous activities; anyone can choose never to waste time on the Internet.

I'm guessing you don't do all those things, though. I'm guessing some of those things aren't your priorities, or that an aescetic life wouldn't feel like one worth living to you.

You might protest that you don't have the responsibility to do all those things, which would suggest that you think the only actual responsibility people have is to look pleasant to you when they're out in public.

...which is a pretty regressive way for a black gay female to look at the world ;)

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

People can control lots of things.

Which completely contradicts what you said prior. So either people can control what they do or they can't. I'm going to need you to pick a struggle. Like I said and I will say it again, aside from having a medical condition there is no reason other than laziness that makes people fat. You can't even tell me I'm wrong because deep down you know I'm right. My guess is that you are making excuses because you may be a bit over weight yourself, and hearing someone say this is hard for you. I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm right.

Taking care of yourself isn't a bad thing. You comparing random things that has zero to do with that our conversation was about isn't helping your cause, you pointing out that I am a black gay female has nothing to do with the fact that people who don't have a medical condition and are overweight are lazy. Are you seriously going to still defend that they are not being lazy? What causes one to be overweight? Lack of exercise and bad eating habits. You can be poor and still not eat garbage. You can be stressed out and still not eat a box of damn doughnuts. Those are CHOICES and people need to held accountable for the choices they make in their lives.

Someone can make a choice to rob a store, and if they get arrested are you going to blame their circumstances or are you going to blame the person who made the choice to rob the store in the first place. That isn't looking at the world in a regressive way at all, that is holding people accountable for their actions. Accountability is something a lot of people lack these days.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You just completely ignored my point.

Like I said and I will say it again, there are only 24 hours in the day. For any given hour, you can spend it jogging; you can spend it studying; you can spend it arguing with strangers on the Internet; you can spend it raising a family.

Which means that some people are thin; some people have Ph.D.s; some people have a lot of karma points; some people have four children.

So the question is: you've got four people. One of them is thin and fit and works at a grocery store. One of them is a fat lawyer. One of them is a fat mother of four. One of them is average-sized and spends hours a day arguing on the Internet.

You seem to take it for granted that the two lazy pieces of shit are the lawyer and the mother. I don't find that to be particularly self-evident. I think maybe those two are the least lazy ones.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't ignore your "point" you just didn't like my answer and are desperately trying to defend and make excuses on why you're overweight.

I work for a lot of lawyers and yes most of them are lazy. They are also not really fat, and some are but those ones snack all day long. I see them doing it.

My point is and is backed by medical facts, not opinions or feelings, is that unless you have a medical condition that causes you to gain weight, there is no reason why you should be fat unless you're lazy.

I've seen plenty of people with 4+ kids who are lazy. I've seen plenty of people with 1 kid who are not. I've seen plenty of people who work at a grocery store who are lazy, and plenty that are not. The only one ignoring anything is you, ignoring facts.