The “Gold Star” Problem

submitted by WordsHaveMeanings from self.Lesbians

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[–][deleted] 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I’m in my 30s and dated women since high school.

I honestly never heard of the word until I came to lesbian groups on the internet and while I’ve seen some who are just celebrating their path, the most I see is kind of misogynistic or unsympathetic to different paths of life.

For example, my only sexual encounter with a man was a sexual assault. All I am told is not to worry, I still get my sticker. Um, my sexual assault was extremely graphic and traumatic. I am not fishing for an internet cookie nor does it make me feel better that I “still get one.” Like, thanks it was never a worry nor an issue in me getting women.

Secondly, some online lesbian communities can come to sound very shameful or unsympathetic to lesbians that did not have the perfect path. It’s almost like men who want to find virgins and value women based on how less touched they were before them.

I have seen lesbians that just celebrate it and awesome. It should be celebrated that you knew yourself and were unaffected, however some corners of this can be toxic and ugly.

[–]Anniesworld 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I think people should respect each other and their life stories.

I was also assaulted a few years ago and I think for anyone to consider that part of your orientation/ identity is kinda fu**ed in the head. You define who you are.

I've only ever used gold star as a descriptor in conversation or as a light hearted joke with other lesbians and gay men. I agree with you, that it's mostly a internet conversation topic which tends to morph it's self into a measurement contest of how much more of a lesbian they are(which I think is pretty juvenile).

Even though that is the case, I think positivity about it is a good thing. If the gold star experience becomes more common place that would mean more women feel safe and empowered enough to fully express their sexual identity. I think that is a great goal to strive for, but even so there will still be women who will have experiences with men. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, people sometimes need to explore things to understand what they want in life.

[–]StoneyTangawizi1 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

I am a goldstar and I also think goldstar positivity is a good thing if I can help much more young girls and women avoided being sexually intimated with someone who they don't feel attraction to, and ended up feeling disgusted "dirty" or "devastated" and even traumatic to themselves thanks to fucked up dickcentric male-worshipping societal standards. To me, goldstar should become the norm among lesbians in the West (believe it or not, but in some Muslim countries like in North Africa, goldstars seem to be the norm there from what I learnt from my conversations with other lesbians from those places).

The following story is an example of positivity which should be heard much more. Its from another lesbian forum.

While I understand and respect that women and lesbians's journey can be different, as someone who grew up with a lesbian aunt and her group of lesbian friends (nine of them women from two different continents, and five different countries. My aunt and I are Irish/North Indians. Four are surgeons like my aunt, two lawyers, one architect, one accountant and one forensic research scientist), I feel like the notion and careless mention that "non gold stars" are many is an utter disrespect for many, many, many, many "gold stars/platinum stars".

Back in the days of my aunt and her friends' youthful days(early 70s to early 90s, where they were between their teenage years and twenties, they don't go by the star thing. In fact, they are beautiful and intelligent young women who chose to concentrate on furthering their education and establishing their career, along where they met their girlfriends and future wives)

These women come from various backgrounds and race, most of them are Europeans and Americans who didn't blindly follow any silly "peer pressure" and such. Some of their other lesbian friends who were from more conservative, religious background who initially thought that there was something wrong with them actually didn't resort to "following their peers or trying to date men", instead they isolated themselves from doing something that is extremely revolting to them. Eventually, they understood that being a lesbian is absolutely normal, and the hetero-patriarchal society they live in will never get to dictate their lives.

Growing up amidst these wonderful, brave women and learning more from their friends and acquaintances made me realise that stories and journies like this are often silenced and not spoken or told widely enough because these women treat being a lesbian as normal and as natural as the sun and moon, and defying the misogynistic, hetero-patriarchal society.

My sympathies and understanding for those who weren't brave or fortunate enough to have such courage and clearer mind and convictions but in all honesty, these are not the stories that should be told often because these are NOT the norm. These so called "non goldstars" are NOT the norm anywhere in the world, not even in countries like America where high schoolers are pressured to loose their "virginity" like it's some damn plague. It's just that they're stories and experience are repeated often, so very unfortunately. It almost seems like it's done on purpose by some other groups of people that try to tell other girls and women "hey, you can't decide you're gay/lesbian unless you've tried having sex or having sexual relations with men", which is extremely, disgustingly revolting. It's nothing but male entitlement demanding that any woman or girl must be available to men. This has to be eradicated, like twenty centuries ago.

My wish and advice to young lesbians is that they understand that in no terms do they ever have to do something that they're uncomfortable with, in no terms do they have to try something that they find utterly revolting just because their other friends are doing it, in no terms do they have to feel pressured to let their body be a merely available sexual object for some entitled piece of shit.

My wish for especially the young lesbians is that they understand that yes, it's absolutely normal to wait; Yes, it's absolutely normal to simply wait even for your very first kiss, your very first sexual relation with a girl/woman whom YOU are sexually (and even romantically) attracted to and who SHE is mutually attracted to and respects and cherish you as a person. Yes, it's absolutely alright to want your "firsts" to be special, with that special girl/woman.

[–]ShotsFired 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It almost seems like it's done on purpose by some other groups of people that try to tell other girls and women "hey, you can't decide you're gay/lesbian unless you've tried having sex or having sexual relations with men", which is extremely, disgustingly revolting.

People who think that way are going to think that way regardless. They're just homophobes. It's nothing new, like MyLongestJourney said. And when it comes to the coercion and pressure that young lesbians face, that's also going to exist regardless of them hearing gold star stories or not. We live in a heterosexual world. I know you mean well, but I'm with Lavalanche17 on the not defining ourselves in relation to men at all thing.

[–]StoneyTangawizi1 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Well if these gold star stories and experiences can help massively increase the number of goldstars and greatly minimize/decrease the number of young future lesbians who will end up dating and fucking males due to hetero-misogynistic and dick-worshipping social pressures and standards, then I think it should be heavily promoted and heard in the lesbian community and also to the internet and media, so that young girls who are trying to figure their sexuality or struggling to accept them can find out and heard about these gold star stories/experiences.

I don't really understand what Lavalanche17's point is? If we can help much more young lesbians becoming goldstars then we definitely should promote goldstar positivity.

[–]TalerTest 29 insightful - 2 fun29 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Lavalanche17 did make a pretty good point. If you think about it, the goldstar stuff is all about men. Categorizing lesbians by past relations to men. I've always found it off-putting to give men that kind of significance in our sexuality. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely all for showing young lesbians that there's nothing wrong with having sexual boundaries, but I'm not sure that this is the way to go about it. It would be simultaneously teaching those young lesbians that men have the power/authority to take something (their "goldstar") away from them and their identity and I hate the idea of giving that kind of importance to men at all, personally. I think we are on different sides of the coin. I don't care at all if a lesbian has been with a man in the past or not. My only hope is that the ones in heterosexual situations can come out and live their truth.

[–]Wot 8 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

I really don't get this sentiment at all. It's like taking issue with the fact that if you have sex then how you're identified changes. We literally live in a world where women and girls are seen as existing for men and babies and if you haven't been with a man then you're strange and even hated. Why would we ever want to silence gold star rethoric when it would be the only thing protecting lesbians from all the ubiquitous and quotidian coercion to be with men? To be normal? If you really think about it, the term lesbian also categorizes ourselves in relation to men because it's about male exclusion. Men exist and in that effect, they always have significance to our sexuality because it's not the norm to exclude them. Good for your if you don't care if a lesbian has been with a man or not. That's not the point. Gold star being amplified could have protected those lesbians in het situations you claim to care about to have never gotten in them if that was a genuine choice for them.

[–]TalerTest 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I was going to respond, but someone else who you also accused of "trying to silence gold stars" already left a perfect response right here.

And what is gold star rhetoric? Isn't that just lesbian rhetoric? "You don't need to have sex with men to know that you're a lesbian" Every lesbian says that.

[–]Wot 9 insightful - 8 fun9 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Gold star rhetoric is literally just their experience which differs from those whose been with men. Its, "I know it's not normal to not have fucked men but I didn't. Here's exactly what that looks like, here's how misconceptions didn't fit as another user here has mentioned, here's how you'll get hate from every direction even your own community as you can see here, etc." Why can't yall just own up to the fact that all yall care about is that it makes some lesbians uncomfortable and that's worth trying to silence other lesbians about? Because, if the idea being perpetuate by all lesbians is that you don't need to sleep with men for any reason then you're literally trying to build the gold star community and simultaneously telling them to go away.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to say that's a really good point and one that I haven't heard brought about this topic before.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say. "Gold star" gives men way too much power.