Indoctrination / DoublethinkSex Beyond Labels - Peter Tatchell explains why gay and lesbian people need to stop being homosexual and move on

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[–][deleted] 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If homophobia is increasingly vanquished, the need for specific communities based on sexual orientation and the need to advocate for our specific legal rights look set to decline

One of the major reasons for such communities is to find potential partners since it is rather hard to do that in a world where the vast majority of people are straight. So, no, the decline in traditional homophobia has basically nothing to do with LGB communities dying. It's more the rise in TQ+ homophobia driving the decline since we can no longer effectively self organize without predatory heterosexuals forcing their way in and harassing us.

[–]KingDickThe2nd 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The guy is very disingenuous in his arguments, plus notice how he overwhelmingly focused on male sexuality.

There is a clear pattern in male heterosexual behaviour (both in humans and other animals) where if they are denied sexual mates (by using consent, coerced or rape), then they will go with the "next best thing". And this 'next best thing' behaviour has got absolutely nothing to do with bisexuality.

You might remember that "gay ram" scientific study on sheep. Here they got a number of rams and then either forced them to have sex with other rams, forced them to have sex with ewes or gave them free choice. They found that one of the rams would only mate with other rams and this behaviour contradicted the behaviour of the rest of the rams. The other rams would mate with ewes (and given a choice would always go with the ewes), but when they were denied sexual mates with the ewes and provided other rams instead, the rams would mate with them 'as the next best thing'. If a ram in this study was bisexual, then you would expect it to try and mate with a mixture of rams and ewes if given free choice.

We can see it in humans with prison sex or when 12-year-old heterosexual boys engage in same-sex sexual experimentation because they lack the social and mental maturity required to have a girlfriend or because are stuck in a British boarding school.

The biggest problem is that this 'next best thing' response can become quite pedophilic. And if a society has a considerable amount of sex segregation that stops men having contact with woman and young girls, but still allows contact with boys, then heterosexual men in that society will start abusing young boys as the 'next best thing'. This is the type of behaviour that was in Ancient Greece or we saw in Afghanistan between 2001 and 2021 (read the wikileak cables on the matter).

Interestingly the author mentions behaviour on sailing ships in the age of sail, yet fails to mention that the sexual targets of the men on these ships was not towards other adult men but rather towards "powder monkeys" and younger sailors who were in fact child soldiers.

The reality is that this 'next best thing' behaviour (up until the last 100 years or so), has always been seen as heteronormative behaviour that did not contradict the social expectations of male behaviour, un-like homosexuality.

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting point!

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

When we reach a stage of human evolution, where we are no longer being denied and abused because of our sexuality and the world becomes more accepting, it seems likely that people will become less fixated on “gay” or “straight” and instead identify (if at all) somewhere in the middle. When the taboos, both cultural and legal, are removed from same-sex desire, what will the world look like? As I explained in my TED talk, I predict it will look a lot more bisexual.

Not being fixated on labeling your sexuality will not magically change us into bisexuals. He's also insinuating being bisexual is just a choice.

They also recorded that in some aboriginal cultures, such as the Keraki and Sambia peoples of Papua New Guinea, all young men entered into a relationship with an unmarried male warrior, sometimes lasting several years, as part of their rites of passage to manhood. Once completed, they ceased all homosexual contact and assumed sexual desires for women. If sexual orientation was totally biologically pre-programmed at birth, these men would have never been able to switch from homosexuality to heterosexuality with such apparent ease.

Lg people who are in forced marriages apparently convert to heterosexuality and if they leave that marriage, they revert to gay, easy-peasy.

Research by Dr. Alfred Kinsey in the USA during the mid-20th century was the first major statistical evidence that gay and straight are not watertight, irreconcilable and mutually exclusive sexual orientations. He found that human sexuality is, in fact, often a continuum of desires and behaviours, ranging from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality.

Kinsey made a thing with exclusive straight and gay on either ends but it's a spectrum, not the bisexuals in the middle that are the spectrum, but also the exclusive ends that are not exclusive because they are part of a spectrum......or something

They won’t feel the need to label themselves (or others) as LGB or straight because, in a future non-homophobic civilisation, no one will care who loves whom. Love and desire will transcend sexual orientation.

So lack of homophobia will make me love and desire vagina

Gee, I wonder which letter of the alphabet needs us to all be bisexual?

[–]KingDickThe2nd 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They also recorded that in some aboriginal cultures, such as the Keraki and Sambia peoples of Papua New Guinea, all young men entered into a relationship with an unmarried male warrior, sometimes lasting several years, as part of their rites of passage to manhood. Once completed, they ceased all homosexual contact and assumed sexual desires for women. If sexual orientation was totally biologically pre-programmed at birth, these men would have never been able to switch from homosexuality to heterosexuality with such apparent ease.

Lg people who are in forced marriages apparently convert to heterosexuality and if they leave that marriage, they revert to gay, easy-peasy.

Plus his example is bogus anyway, the author is actually using "young men" as a euphemism for little boys who were forced to become catamite sex toys for adult men.

The "young men" started engaging in heterosexual behaviour after the civil unions, due to the fact that the same sex behaviour sexual molestation was contrary to their sexual orientation.

The Keraki and Sambia tribes practiced pederasty as part of their 'Coming of Age' ceremonies, which has nothing to do with homosexuality. You can actually find videos taken by anthropologists showing the "young men" getting other rituals performed on them on YouTube.

[–]Datachost 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Plus his example is bogus anyway, the author is actually using "young men" as a euphemism for little boys who were forced to become catamite sex toys for adult men.

Tatchell has some form for blurring the boundaries between children & adults. Let's not forget he cosied up to a few PIE figures back in the day, and even wrote a foreword for one of their books. Now he claims he was duped and didn't know their true intentions, but when it keeps happening and you keep hitching your wagon to causes with nefarious goals such as removal of safeguarding and blurring the child-adult boundary, you're either ridiculously obtuse or you've gone into it knowing full well what the end goal is.

[–]julesburm1891 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

When we reach a stage of human evolution, where we are no longer being denied and abused because of our sexuality and the world becomes more accepting, it seems likely that people will become less fixated on “gay” or “straight” and instead identify (if at all) somewhere in the middle.

I really don’t even know where to begin.

  1. This entire sentence requires you to believe sexual orientation is a choice to even kind of sort of make sense. Frankly, I think the only way a person can believe that is if he or she is deeply in denial about his or her sexuality.

  2. I don’t “identify” as a lesbian. It’s just the word that describes the fact that I am a female who is exclusively attracted to other females.

  3. In what world would anyone be “fixated” on being gay if that meant experiencing discrimination and violence? If we could “fixate” on being a certain way, people would choose the path without the hardship.

  4. A greater number of Westerners becoming accepting of homosexuals doesn’t mean that we will suddenly stop being gay or that 90-ish% of the world will magically stop being straight. I’m truly baffled at how he’s pulled this conclusion out of his ass. Saying 1 + 2 = Greek yogurt makes more sense than his claim.

  5. If I would be bi instead of gay without homophobia, why wouldn’t I just be bi with homophobia? (Sorry, still stuck on this because it’s the weirdest fucking thing I’ve heard in a while.)

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry, but I can't stand "sexuality is fluid (for everyone)"-people. They will never respect homosexuality.

the need for specific communities based on sexual orientation and the need to advocate for our specific legal rights look set to decline

Why would we not need to advocate for our rights and humanity? Most of human history has had no organized communities for homosexuals, and no words to describe our experiences, and homosexuals were treated terribly. It's only when we've begun to organize among ourselves that we were treated as sane humans.

[–]jiljol 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's so cute how he calls his TEDx talk his "TED talk". No, Pete, no.

[–]VenusEnvy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The irony of his opening sentence: "In my decades of work as an LGBT+ activist, I’ve watched the world change around me. Homosexuality, once an almost unspeakable taboo, has become widely accepted in much of the western world, and the trend towards acceptance is still growing."

He's literally participating in the regression of the acceptance of homosexuals in the west while saying we're the most accepted we've ever been. So what is our takeaway from reading this? "You're a little too accepted, it's making me uncomfortable, let's dial it back some and go back to telling to to submit to 'corrective rape' just like we did in the good ol' days!" Because that's what I'm getting from this (and almost everything else related to anything with "TQ+" attached to it).

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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