all 17 comments

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lawyer here. Not anyone here’s lawyer. And this is not my field but my field is not entirely irrelevant since I deal with discrimination matters in other contexts.

I’m too busy at the moment with actual lawyering to fully think this through and also because it’s not my particular field, but just wanted to add that there is a publicity benefit to be gained even if we are determined to not have standing or a claim.

There is a lot of potential to sue various players for discrimination against LGB people. I see as prime candidates the tech companies but also the organizations that claim to represent us. It needs to be put on the public radar that there are homosexual and bisexual people suing the organizations that claim to represent us. You would have to find individuals with a basis for standing, but it’s the optics that matter. In terms of suing the hijacked gay rights organization, we can use LGB Alliance UK, Allison Bailey, and Stonewall UK as examples. The hook is probably in starting an organization that focuses on just same-sex rights and that also exposes the harm of gender ideology on gay people and youth. The hijacked orgs will try to shut that down a la Stonewall UK. So there might be availability of claims for things like anticompetitive behavior, defamation or libel, and/or discrimination based on sexual orientation (in trying to prevent any orgs to form based around the single issue of same-sex attraction in contrast with the million trans orgs that exist). We need to get the idea out there that not every gay/bi person is on board with societally-destructive gender ideology. The problem may always been in who would take on our case. Big Gender has captured a lot of law firms and I would not want to be associated or represented by attorneys whose practice is in conservative Christian Christianity like the poor female track athletes in Connecticut.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What someone should do is send a link to that glinner article about Ashton challenor being a pedo to Reddit with a summary and then post a copy of what they sent somewhere online. 20 years down the track if that fuck rapes someone who they groomed on Reddit maybe that victim would have a shot at suing Reddit. Duty of care mightn't be there, but there's an argument to run (could you like the role of a moderator in the community to that of a priest?). But maybe we can help them out with breach.

Heck, post it on AL or LGBT subs and document it's removal lol.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!! I was hoping you would comment :)

but just wanted to add that there is a publicity benefit to be gained even if we are determined to not have standing or a claim.

That's a really good point. It might be an uphill battle. I would worry, though, that we would seem more discredited if the lawsuits were not successful. But I am sure it would help in bringing about mainstream dialogue.

It needs to be put on the public radar that there are homosexual and bisexual people suing the organizations that claim to represent us. You would have to find individuals with a basis for standing, but it’s the optics that matter.

Absolutely.

The problem may always been in who would take on our case. Big Gender has captured a lot of law firms and I would not want to be associated or represented by attorneys whose practice is in conservative Christian Christianity like the poor female track athletes in Connecticut.

That is a huge problem. Do you have any suggestions for how to identify what groups might be more amenable? I am guessing the lawyers who skew younger are most likely to be deep in transgender ideology.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is a huge problem. Do you have any suggestions for how to identify what groups might be more amenable? I am guessing the lawyers who skew younger are most likely to be deep in transgender ideology.

It’s not just younger lawyers who are the problem. Corporations and Biglaw firms alike are cashing in on Big Gender and woke virtue signaling as solutions to their difficult problems. They realized they could get a lot of brownie points by putting pronouns in signatures and having woke speakers come in to spew woke bullshit on gender identity, sexual orientation, race, etc. without providing any solutions or even clearly naming the problem. The kind of people who say high level shit like “People of color and the LGBTQ community are disproportionately impacted by COVID/poverty” without explaining who and what they mean and why, because they merely want to push that narrative for their own agenda and companies pretend to buy into it for virtue signaling purposes because it costs so little relative to making actual changes to their employment and business practices.

Wokeness is a huge snake oil industry, and gets these entities lauded by the same “socialist” types who have otherwise declared them to be the enemy. Companies and law firms seek to essentially buy up certifications from orgs like the Human Rights Campaign that certify just how great they are for the “LGBTQ community” or “People of Color” whatever other bullshit grouping of people. Look up the Mansfield Rule for example. It appears good on the surface but there are zero standards and it becomes increasingly easier to comply because they keep adding groups that count as diverse but the 30% threshold never changes. They keep talking about how important the standards are without saying what they are (i.e. how they even determine “meaningful consideration” of diverse candidates in hiring or some other job decision). They don’t say if it’s measuring the pool of applicants or measuring the select group that gets sent to the hiring manager. In effect it’s all just opportunities for companies and firms to create good optics.

So in this environment, firms will not want to touch our issue because they will be painted as being anti-LGBT and will become radioactive and drive away corporate clients that are trying to do their own virtue-signaling. This is very different than the era of Bush v. Gore, for example, when you had two BigLaw heavyweight firms on the opposite sides, that later joined together in furtherance of gay rights for the Perry case on same-sex marriage in California.

This is a huge institutional problem that creates the false appearance of a moral right and wrong side to each issue, when it was and always has been about $$$$. Even worse, the Pritzkers are now bankrolling Northwestern’s Law School and created a legal clinic for “trans rights” (where they use the clinic to do things like get dangerous males into women’s prisons) and other law schools are doing this too. They have positioned themselves as the underdogs, not us.

My best guess would be to find a plaintiff-side firm that does class actions against big companies. I don’t know that they’d be willing to touch it, but if the momentum initially comes from going after the medical side of this, I think there would be takers not because this is righteous, but because it is lucrative. Unfortunately this makes it really hard for gay people to get ahead of this UNLESS those med malpractice lawsuits center gay to trans/non-binary conversion as a key issue. I really wish Rand Paul had mentioned that Keira Bell is a lesbian.

[–]WildApples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem may always been in who would take on our case. Big Gender has captured a lot of law firms and I would not want to be associated or represented by attorneys whose practice is in conservative Christian Christianity like the poor female track athletes in Connecticut.

Your post is great. I want to add that there are also governmental avenues. Many states have anti-discrimination agencies whose sole function is to investigate and prosecute discrimination complaints, though they may be on the woke side by now. It would be interesting to see how they'd handle such cases.

Additionally, I think this would be of interest to some attorney generals, a great way for a rising star to take on Big Tech while also getting civil rights points that could draw a bigger base of support. Currently, several states have started going after Big Tech for censorship and antitrust violations. We could be riding that wave. If nothing else, we could try to tip off some AGs as to what is going on with Reddit.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/09/944073889/48-attorneys-general-sue-facebook-alleging-illegal-power-grabs-to-neutralize-riv https://www.wnd.com/2021/03/state-attorneys-general-mobilize-combat-big-tech-censorship/ https://reclaimthenet.org/texas-attorney-general-on-big-tech-monopoly-power-to-censor/

[–]Aspiringcatlady_5 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm don't know anything about law. As an ally and part of superstraight, I think lgb has every right to sue Reddit. They are allowing silencing of a minority group and allowing AH Subreddit to distribute CP on their website without consequence. The FBI should be hovering over that subreddit and secret discord chat

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hey, welcome!! :) I completely agree about AHS. It is shocking how much brigading Reddit allows them to accomplish, and apparently using illegal material-- I would love to see documentation of this, but I'm not sure how easy it is to prove, given that they keep making new accounts to post it.

[–]Aspiringcatlady_5 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

According to a lot of people do it while everyone is asleep so it is really hard to catch. A lot of people take about the spamming CP and hate content on Reddit. I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUV9TyfYaEQ&t=7s

Here is someone on the super straight subreddit saying they will post illegal content. It might not be AHS, but it is definitely one of the groups that want to censor LGB and super straight. https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveForSuperStraights/comments/m3g9dl/i_have_a_totally_question_about_superstraight/

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My two cents would be since Reddit is based in the United States, sue them there. Any policy decisions or legal consequences that are made there will probably have global consequences. If that happened in the UK or the EU or Australia or wherever, the end result would likely just be people in those countries or regions wouldn't be able to access Reddit at all.

I don't know anything about Reddit's corporate structure, but you still see this occasionally with things like GDPR. This is an EU-wide data protection law which states all websites have to explain to users all the cookies they want to store on the machine, what they're used for, and ask for consent for each individual one. Anyone within the EU visiting a website for the first time, or on a new device will have to click 'agree' all the time. It's kind of tedious, but good to know what data is being used.

Anyway, most US-based websites obliged accordingly, but a lot did not. It was mostly news websites and for several weeks they simply said they were not able to be accessed within the EU (of which the UK was then still technically a part).

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I wonder how much effort it would take to try to get some sort of court case going here in the U.S. It is kind of frustrating that companies here in the U.S. exert so much influence and power in countries where suing them might make no difference, it's ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit has been pretty blatant in denying homosexual people their own communities. I don't know how anyone could argue that it's not discrimination based on sexual orientation, but I'm sure LGBTQ organizations would try to make an argument against it.

And I'm also sure that TRAs would launch a targeted campaign at whoever launched the lawsuit, so there would be danger for that person or people.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Responding to u/NutterButterFlutter here because I can't on the locked post:

I reposted because my experience in the past has been if I didn't, then I would have to wait 3-4 days for a post to get reviewed. That was last summer when there was a lot less mod activity though. I will keep that in mind moving forward, thanks for the heads up!

[–]ks00 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This won't go anywhere, it's a waste of time.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Curious why you think so?

[–]ks00 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because reddit is owned by private interests and I don't think there is any precedent of social media companies being punished for their moderation styles. If Donald Trump can't get his twitter ban overturned, even though he was president of the United States - such that it's in the public interest to archive his records, it would be difficult to win this.

[–]chazzstrong 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Our whole country, basically most of Western civilization is owned by private interests. We were too complacent, we let them creep in through the years of lethargy and comfort, and now they have everything they need to lock us down eternally. All those years pointing fingers at McCarthy and Putin, and holy shit they were right.
We fought the Nazis, and we were so happy that we won we never noticed them slipping into our shadows. : /

[–]WildApples 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would not be so defeatist about this. Yes, it is hard to challenge tech companies policies on moderation because these are free services that we use at their discretion. It is hard to argue that they owe us participation when we pay nothing and they have sole control over the terms of use, or contract, if you will. Contract claims against them will therefore be impossible.

But we would not be arguing contract claims. Regardless of tech companies terms and policies, they have to follow the laws in the jurisdictions they operate in, and many of us live in jurisdictions that give us statutory rights to be free from discrimination. These companies have great latitude in deciding which individuals can use their sites, but they cannot use that discretion to discriminate against protected groups of people, which is what I argue they have been doing. I think Reddit's actions over all evince a pattern of disparate treatment on the basis of sex and sexual orientation.