The “Lesbian” Bar Isn’t Dead. It’s Pouring Orange Wine in Los Angeles. (Quotation marks my own)

yousaythosethings · 2023-04-03T05:39:25+00:00

In conclusion, “The Lesbian Bar is Actually Dead AND YOU WON’T BELIEVE WHY.”

If you don’t think lesbian bars are for you then don’t go to them and go to the many bars that explicitly cater to you. It’s weird that it’s not just that they don’t want to go to lesbian bars, they don’t want any lesbian to have that option.

As a non-Lithuanian, I‘m not trying to get the local Lithuanian club to redefine itself to cater to me and re-brand itself as a “Club for Lithuanians and Non-Lithuanians.” Most people would recognize that as narcissistic behavior.

yousaythosethings · 2023-03-16T17:25:34+00:00

It’s good to hear from you. Keep on pushing through! ❤️

yousaythosethings · 2023-03-13T13:03:03+00:00

Arty Morty did a video comparing gender identity ideology to Scientology a while back.

It’s frustrating that more people don’t pick up on the pseudoreligious nature of the movement and that it requires the forced participation of everyone. Religious conservatives like Matt Walsh avoid bringing this up because obviously they’re all about forcing everyone to participate in their religion and they just hate that they’re the ones without the power.

yousaythosethings · 2023-02-20T19:17:49+00:00

Like Mermaids, the HRC lacks basic foresight and are over-playing their hand. The Streisand Effect in action.

Simultaneously I think the overblown censorious response to Hogwarts Legacy is peaking more people as well.

yousaythosethings · 2023-02-16T13:33:18+00:00

Context:

Buzzfeed News: These New York Times Contributors Say The Paper’s Coverage Of Gender Issues Is Hurting Trans People: Their letter accused recent news stories of using “an eerily familiar mix of pseudoscience and euphemistic, charged language” that vilifies being trans.

New York Times contributors, GLAAD, and many others criticize Times’ coverage of trans people: One open letter draws parallels between the Times’ coverage of trans people and, in earlier decades, its coverage of gay people and HIV/AIDS.

yousaythosethings · 2023-02-16T02:59:09+00:00

So this self-identified trans lesbian has performed a so-called “genital inspection” on their former “cis male roommate?” Nothing more lesbian than engaging in a literal dick measuring contest.

yousaythosethings · 2023-01-04T22:23:17+00:00

I've been noticing more nuanced coverage of trans issues in the mainstream, including recognition of the potential conflict of interest between LGB and TQ:

For this article, Reuters spoke to 17 people who began medical transition as minors and said they now regretted some or all of their transition. Many said they realized only after transitioning that they were homosexual, or they always knew they were lesbian or gay but felt, as adolescents, that it was safer or more desirable to transition to a gender that made them heterosexual. Others said sexual abuse or assault made them want to leave the gender associated with that trauma. Many also said they had autism or mental health issues such as bipolar disorder that complicated their search for identity as teenagers.

And:

Lazzara told Reuters she now realizes that gender treatment was not appropriate for her and that it took a toll on her physical and mental health. “I do wish my doctors had said to me, ‘It’s OK to feel disconnected from your body. It’s OK to like girls. It’s OK to be gender non-conforming.’"

yousaythosethings · 2022-11-17T00:37:12+00:00

This is relatable! I’m glad you’ve found support and comfort in that. 🤗

yousaythosethings · 2022-11-09T15:58:46+00:00

Yes! Thank you! I enjoy these even if I don’t always comment and say so.

yousaythosethings · 2022-11-09T15:57:58+00:00

I think Weekly would be better than Daily. Then people can report in at their leisure but the discussion wouldn’t be even more fragmented than it is currently.

yousaythosethings · 2022-11-08T20:29:39+00:00

These FtMs don’t seem to realize that there are women out there who apply testosterone gel to their clit to enlarge it for fetish-related reasons and are not claiming that this makes their clit a dick and them a man.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-28T07:48:27+00:00

So the people that actually fought for and secured gay rights for so many of us as opposed to the people whose self-styled activism is virtue-signaling and complaining on the Internet with no interest in practical solutions that would spoil their basis for moaning?

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-27T18:40:53+00:00

Her logic is that the surest external sign that you’re a man is if you date women. Sounds like these homophobic parents have a homophobic daughter. This is why it’s dangerous to have these obliviously homophobic mentally ill people with identity issues hanging around in gay spaces teaching their horseshoe homophobia to LGB youth.

They need help too but their problems are the opposite of ours and so we need our own resources and spaces to address our unique needs, as they should have their own.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-20T17:48:46+00:00

My thoughts exactly. It sounds preferable in theory to take all of your deep-rooted, complicated, painful, embarrassing feelings and turn them into a fun and exciting journey, but this is what you end up with. They’re frogs in hot water being encouraged by others just like them in these echo chambers so all seems good and normal to them. I don’t think most of the trans or bust crowd realizes that this is what they’re enabling and I think they’d find it too crazy to be true. Or the edgiest of edge cases. Certainly not a pattern or a problem that we need to contend with. So here we are.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-17T14:02:15+00:00

Better lesson: “cis gay” men don’t need external validation of the fact that they are men. They are men because they are male no matter how they act or feel or what other people think of them. Basing your own identity on how others perceive you is a losing game for everyone, gay, trans, or otherwise.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-15T06:25:07+00:00

Are you only now learning about object constancy?

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-09T00:04:05+00:00

So what, pray tell Dave, should we call a “cis woman who is only attracted to cis women?”

Who is denying whose existence here?

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-06T17:34:29+00:00

Totally agree but then it had the ironic effect of proving the point that only women or men who have sex with women can offer meaningful advice, which is why it’s stupid to pretend that you’ve come to gay men for advice on vagina in good faith. It also put OP in an awkward position where their hands were basically tied and they couldn’t call out the other interloper for not staying in her lane.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-03T21:45:13+00:00

I’ve heard the kind and inclusive people over at r/AskVegans have the best steakhouse recommendations.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-03T17:28:32+00:00

Oh god you just reminded me that celebrity feminist Emma Watson refused to wear a corset for Beauty and the Beast but has publicly promoted, donated to, and encouraged donations to Mermaids. Surely she has an empty platitude to clarify her stance. Probably that breast binders, corsets, burqas, etc. can be empowering.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-03T16:54:35+00:00

She’s actually been reading the room perfectly. That Pride and LGBTQ are now mostly about attention-seeking (actual or functional) heterosexuals. Like recognizes like.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-03T16:52:01+00:00

I have to say that the men who say less and just make jokes about the absurdity of anyone coming to gay men for advice on vagina come across as much more effective than those who jump right to ranting angrily about how “you’re not gay” and “women aren’t men.” We know. And the men making the jokes know. But AGB is overall a pretty light sub and humor works way better in an environment like that. And combativeness is more likely to drive away people who otherwise agree with you on the core facts. Plus the jokes had me howling. Vagina cadet LMAO.

Even the succinct responses about the poster seeming lost or asking what they expected are more effective. Especially in the cumulative. Just my thoughts, anyway.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-03T16:41:21+00:00

I think it’s a numbers game as much as a male vs. female socialization game. Reddit is a male-dominant website in terms of the user base. As usual, trans people tend to track more on par with their sex than their gender, so that means that within the trans population, the male sex (MTF) predominates over the female sex (FTM). Gay men seem to outnumber gay-appropriating trans men but lesbians are waaaay outnumbered by transbians. Not to mention that terminally online males seem to be transing at an alarming rate.

So even before you get to male socialization where the natural reaction is to make jokes and point out the absurdity of the situation vs. female socialization which is to tie oneself in knots to be accommodating and indirect, lesbians will always lose based on numbers.

But yes the admins and mods tend to be predominantly male across all gay and trans Reddit spaces and they do absolutely treat female insolence as much more intolerable.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-02T18:56:26+00:00

Ah yes, Katy, a living testament to “trans joy.”

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-02T12:12:53+00:00

JK Rowling does not have thin skin, so she is able to choose her battles. She does not come across as whiny, petulant, and implacable like the vast majority of her detractors such as Ben Cohen who can’t help but get in his own way (and those of LGBT people generally). In contrast, when JK strikes, it has impact and causes you to sit up and pay attention rather than tune her out.

She is also not overly concerned with engaging in Twitter battles. She recognizes that Twitter is not the best medium to communicate a complex and nuanced message and self-publishes on her own website so that she cannot be misconstrued and censored.

There is a lot to be learned from her. She wields her power well. Many of her detractors realize this but they’re not shrewd enough to figure out how or why, and are too egotistical and self-righteous to realize they’re out-classed. It will be to their detriment though, because she’s demonstrated that she’s in it for the long haul and plays the long game.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-01T17:54:48+00:00

I mean are there any examples of the husband courting the press? Or is it always or mainly Amanda?

Or is he merely a prop in his wife’s full-on career as a gender influencer provocateur? I still don’t see any evidence that AJK is a victim of spousal abuse and that this is a coping mechanism. And there is absolutely a type of woman who seeks out or creates a trans partner to use as a prop in their own self-promotion. Similar to Jazz Jennings’s mom and family.

I believe this is the same woman who wrote an op-Ed in The NY Times or WaPo about how children should be exposed to kink. It’s not just about coping with having an AGP husband. She reminds me of a Meghan Markle type narcissist, LGBTQ edition with Munchausen’s by proxy edges.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-01T14:44:38+00:00

I’m caught between thinking it’s likely not a real 13 y/o and more likely an older LARPing male creep or a To Catch a Predator style honeypot, to also thinking this is the kind of dumb shit that bored 13-year-olds do.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-01T14:42:23+00:00

It’s generally a little column A and a little column B. Kids with dysfunctional relationships with their parents (which can take many different forms) are a hell of a lot more vulnerable to this stuff and are also more likely to spend time in odd places online where they come in contact with it.

yousaythosethings · 2022-10-01T14:35:54+00:00

Are you aware of any instance where you’ve heard the story from the husband’s perspective? I’ve only heard it from hers (and across various media), and I actually would be interested in hearing his perspective. I do not get abused woman vibes from her at all. I get histrionic abuser who plays the victim vibes from her. More puppet master than handmaiden. I would not be surprised to learn she had an abusive and dysfunctional childhood though.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-30T17:42:27+00:00

Good for them. You’d think the TRAs would be thrilled to have the terfy gays out of their spaces making them feel unsafe.

But no they understand quite accurately that gay and bi people are drawn to actual gay spaces where we can fucking relax and not have to deal with an even more highly pressurized and tense environment in which we are forced to play word and mind games, lest we suffer serious social consequences, for the privilege of being around our friends and small dating pool.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-30T17:32:41+00:00

This might actually be a case where she took the lead on grooming a trans identity into her husband and then children. She appears to be the one pushing for spotlight on their story. The “mom-ager” of sorts. I think every time I’ve heard of this family, it’s from her perspective. I don’t know enough about the husband to say, but it’s possible he’s somewhat of a victim in this, though one with his own unclean hands, of course.

I just can’t shake the vibes of Munchausen’s by trans proxy with this woman.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-29T14:39:33+00:00

Casual reminder that this woman is a well-established heterosexual queer-jacking narcissistic groomer.

She is a professional provocateur who wants us to pay attention to her more than anything. I suggest we ignore this creep. There is nothing to see here other than a case study in narcissism.

With her, the bigger story is all of the supposedly respectable people and organizations who promote her despite her being the walking red flag she is.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-29T14:35:12+00:00

As usual “gender” here just means personality.

And what it communicates is that she wants to look like she doesn’t care about conformity while conforming to exactly how her friends show their non-conformity. Ground-breaking stuff.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-22T20:07:14+00:00

A lonely, confused woman with identity issues finds that her most meaningful relationship is a close platonic friendship with another confused woman with identity issues. So like every woman in high school but make it “queer?”

I just find this more sad than anything though I side-eye her judgment of the culture she’s unsuccessfully trying to misappropriate. Queer theory is really rotting vulnerable minds, and making that everyone’s problem. But let’s give a round of applause that she’s found her authentic self.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-17T20:21:22+00:00

I read only up to the comment about 99% of profiles on dating apps being couples looking for a third and immediately developed a fantasy whereby transbians seeking to be the female sex object of their dreams respond to these couples and both the couples’ and transbians’ responses cause the other to run away screaming.

Please, karma. Do your thing. Let the trash take itself out.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-17T12:36:12+00:00

Yes definitely, I would say this absolutely requires a form of dissociation and also makes codependency the glue of the relationship. If you’re entering a relationship with someone and are immediately presented the relationship term, “you must uphold my sense of self even when it conflicts with your daily observations,” um that’s A LOT to put on someone. But it also demonstrates that someone willingly entering into a relationship on such terms has their own mental health issues going on that either involves self-abandonment or attraction to the trans-identifying person’s mental vulnerability, possibly with the intent of exploiting it. Neither is healthy obviously, much less worthy of celebration. I think the only relationships with a trans person that can avoid this are those that don’t involve people denying the basic facts of their situation, i.e. no pretending that the trans person is literally a member of the opposite sex and no pretending the partner is not specifically attracted to the mixed sex characteristics or whatever the particular situation may be.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-16T15:50:43+00:00

I felt that. I am SO tired. As it turns out, maybe people whose identities stem from needs based on scientifically observable, incontrovertible facts about themselves have markedly different interests from those whose identities stem from subjective feelings about themselves not tethered to any set of facts.

Why can’t people get this through their thick skulls?

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-14T19:18:45+00:00

Woah! What a betrayal. How are you holding up?

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-14T19:00:45+00:00

Could I trouble someone with an active Facebook account to share what he said?

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-14T00:52:54+00:00

Yea that’s why all of the proposed laws put forth by gender identitarians are awful and would create legal mess. They use words inconsistently, and then leave key terms glaringly undefined, especially the word “gender.” Like come the fuck on. It reeks of them making it up as they go. They also add mess to clear terms by defining “sex” to include a list of stuff that doesn’t include biological sex or anything biological.

The reason they do this is because the only way discourse between the wider public and gender identitarians can happen is by not defining terms and by using well-understood words incorrectly. So people don’t mean the same thing when they use basic words like “gender,” “female,” and “trans,” and the general public is unaware that there was never a meeting of the minds. That’s why this movement is so allergic to daylight and open and direct conversation where people are able to ask questions and expect answers. The exact opposite of the gay rights movement.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-13T21:58:03+00:00

I bet she gets hit on by a lot of lesbians. Who are thereafter very confused. And not in the way she wants them to be.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-12T15:48:41+00:00

It is surprisingly sane. With the one caveat that OP claims to have literally changed sex through medical transition and to be a literal woman, which means they are still trying to uphold some unhealthy cognitive dissonance.

It would be one thing to state that medical transition is about trying to physically resemble the opposite sex as much as possible, while recognizing that they can never actually become or be indistinguishable from the opposite sex under all circumstances even if they pass under some limited circumstances. And that medical transition still does not put you in the dating pool of people looking to date your target sex. It will understandably take you out of the dating pool of those wanting to date your natal sex but rather than going to the opposite side, you just end up in the tiny dating pool of people who are specifically attracted to feminized males/androgenized females/people with mixed sex characteristics. And that category inherently includes a lot of fetishists and people looking to experiment because you have physically transformed yourself into something that does not exist in nature.

It’s just not healthy to have this idea that anyone who dates you won’t be presented with constant indicators that dating you is not an interchangeable experience socially, functionally, and sensorily to dating your target sex. Of course, extenuating factors may contribute to a partner wanting to believe you are a member of your target sex. For example, a male-attracted woman with male-related trauma wanting a way to date a man without dating a man. A male-attracted man with internalized homophobia fearing social consequences for dating a member of the same sex. The list of possibilities is endless. But mutual cognitive dissonance is not healthy and does not make for a stable, loving relationship. It’s a ticking time bomb.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-11T21:30:38+00:00

Some people who were bullied grow up and rather than drawing on their experience to practice empathy for others with the power they find in their adulthood, instead relish in any opportunities they can find to be a bully to others. All while thinking it justified and still considering themselves to be the victim in every situation.

That’s the energy I get from Sam Smith.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-05T00:28:48+00:00

Goddamnit. I had a feeling it was ASMR. I have searched for ASMR produced by lesbians geared toward other lesbians but I could never find anything beyond the wall of porn for men and creepy anime for fetishists stuff.

What a bummer.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-04T23:05:30+00:00

You will certainly be missed. I’ve enjoyed your thoughtfulness and fresh perspective on things. Thanks for helping keep me sane by reminding me that there are still reasonable people out there.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-04T22:57:18+00:00

Ugh I’m sorry you lost a meaningful connection to the lesbian community. Whenever I see obvious male commentary below lesbian/wlw content it squicks me out and makes me feel so violated, and then angry that we’re basically prohibited from defending our ground. There have been times I’ve thought about putting my own content out there and the idea that it would likely attract creepy colonizers who want to wear our skin has been a major deterrent.

Also curious about who the YouTuber is and to read her explanation post. I hope she’s OK and weathers the storm, and eventually finds a safer home for her content.

I have reached the conclusion that the only way for lesbians to have anything is for it to be underground, accessible only through heavy vetting, and with significant deterrents in place to keep colonizers away.

yousaythosethings · 2022-09-04T22:49:03+00:00

Did your former friend know about your contrary beliefs? If not, is she the retributive type that you would not feel “safe” if she knew about your contrary beliefs?

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-29T21:03:34+00:00

Funny that those transbians end up giving away that it’s “cis” lesbians they’re interested in and not their fellow transbians. If they were going after their own kind they could join in on the joke. Oh the irony behind the comment about “cis” lesbians forgetting about trans lesbians.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-29T20:54:38+00:00

1984 nails it again.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-28T23:49:51+00:00

I wonder when the tipping point will come when there are so many “trans kids” that the Munchausen moms will realize they’ll get more attention for having a detrans kid.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-28T17:40:38+00:00

It depends on what they mean. If I see an obvious female who is attractive and then learn she identifies as “non-binary,” yea my attraction shrivels up real fast because I am strongly adverse to getting involved with anyone who buys into that toxic way of thinking. Plus it’s often sitting on top of a personality disorder.

But if it’s a self-identified lesbian who acts like identity is the base of their attraction and sex plays no role whatsoever, then yea that makes no sense whatsoever and is not lesbianism. Identity nonsense can remove attraction but it can’t create it.

Does knowing someone’s straight make me lose attraction and interest? Yes, but it’s not like I’m never attracted to straight women. I just tend to be particularly attracted to things I associate with female homosexuality and likewise things I associate with heterosexuality are often turn-offs and/or trigger my self-protective instincts.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-25T06:03:15+00:00

Thanks for the explanation! I remember that name from this sub before when he apparently announced that he identifies as a trans woman. This is especially perplexing because I think he was out as a gay man before this and was married to a man. And now he thinks he’s a gay woman and our problem now? He’s pulling a Gregory/Gigi Gorgeous.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-24T06:17:15+00:00

Idk what you guys are looking at but the TikTok at the link changes each time I’ve clicked it and it’s never TQ-related.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-22T20:52:37+00:00

Did anyone catch the Netflix documentary on Manti Te’o? One big take on the story at the time was that it was a cover-up to hide Manti Te’o’s homosexuality (for which there is no evidence). Can’t believe Manti Te’o was asked in an interview by Katie Couric if he’s really gay and trying to hide it?

And also the sociopath who was catfishing him now identifies as a trans woman and fa’afafine. Because of course they do. So many red flags.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-16T18:56:22+00:00

And girl, you sound like the typical straight cis dude claiming he never had a girl faking an orgasm and they all came within five minutes.

Their brains would tune out everything else you said and just eat up this little validation pellet because it’s what so many of them crave at any cost, which is sad.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-14T22:35:16+00:00

I am not tech savvy enough to comment on the technical stuff but in terms of the interpersonal dynamics involved here, I agree with you. If they’re doing this now, it’s not going to get better. They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-13T12:13:51+00:00

You nailed it. Especially the part about the credibility game with abusers, generally themselves Cluster B or having strong Cluster B traits. Not to mention that dramatic, hostile, black-and-white, all-or-nothing swings in perspectives and engaging in triangulation with third parties (here, going specifically to AGB to announce this apparent epiphany) are also Cluster B behaviors that are evident in a lot of the TRAs turned detransitioners back to TRAs and other iterations of that. This community doesn't really cater to black and white perspectives, and people prone to that way of thinking tend to find better platforms to indulge that elsewhere.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-13T00:20:26+00:00

There’s actually a lot of different opinions and schools of thought represented on here. There are definitely some contributions and contributors I don’t love and don’t personally find add much value, which I generally ignore because that’s not why I’m here. And I still think they should be allowed to express it because the censorship is so extreme elsewhere that I understand the inclination to not want to be as strict here. I’ve personally mostly moved beyond certain types of posts that I find more petty than anything. I’m more concerned about colonization of LGB spaces and resources than what people who identify as trans talk about in their own spaces.

Some things he mentions I think are out of context. He mentions that here Elliot (formerly Ellen Page) is “she.” He glosses over the extensive discussion here about the homophobia and lesbophobia Page is widely known to have received, and comparisons between Page’s coming out as lesbian vs as trans. How nothing about it looks like healthy self-actualization. These are important discussions to be had that really can’t happen anywhere else on the Internet or in the media. And he is not lesbian and doesn’t have the experience of having so little lesbian representation and having more fake lesbian representation. Likewise, he’s a gay man. He has AGB. He has gay bars IRL. He has places he can congregate with gay men. Yet even in liberal cities in the west, lesbians have NOTHING. Zero. Goose egg. It is damn hard to find other lesbians. And we are hounded constantly by outsiders. Also I know what he’s talking about with the cake case but he’s mischaracterizing both the issue and the perspective he’s trying to criticize.

Anyway, for me what characterizes this place is the abundant thoughtful, fresh, nuanced takes I find from a large group of longtime users who are all across the political spectrum and the globe. That’s why I come here.

If he doesn’t find value in this place, no point in trying to convince him otherwise, but his post and comments reflect he still has a lot of beliefs that would get him banned on the rest of Reddit and cancelled into oblivion. Godspeed, brother.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T23:49:50+00:00

Yes, and it absolutely works to our benefit that things kick off in the UK first where there is more centralization of health information, the ongoing Cass Review, and lack of the Big Pharma stranglehold on politicians. Everything that comes out in the UK action can be used to lay a case in the United States without having to worry about setting bad precedent in the U.S. first. Plus I think UK litigation moves much more quickly than U.S. litigation.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T16:25:41+00:00

Sounds like a woman with man-related trauma who sees trans women as a safe target for her heterosexual attraction. Similar to the straight women who lust after gay men. Not necessarily bi, just not lesbian.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T16:18:58+00:00

I don't know how putative class actions work in the UK and it looks like nothing has been filed yet, but I'll be curious to see how this turns out. Notably this is an international law firm that also has medical product liability teams in the United States (and the Netherlands), which makes me wonder if things pick up in the putative UK action whether they will begin pursuing cases in the U.S. After all, U.S. products liability class actions are cash cows.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T16:12:43+00:00

To be clear, there is ZERO reason to believe that the woman in the story is a lesbian and there is no indication she identified as such. In fact, the only way this story makes sense is if she is not a lesbian and doesn't consider herself one. Lesbians who have come to accept their lesbianism simply do not experiment with penises. She willingly had sex with someone she knows is not a woman and who has a penis, and doesn't appear to have felt pressured into it or traumatized by the experience. She, like most straight and bi women, just didn't like it. And it's pretty clear by implication that she was expecting a penis ("But if I wanted to have sex with a legitimate woman, I'd be expecting a vagina").

In fact, she considered the experience straight/heterosexual, which it factually is. She just didn't have a good time and doesn't want to have sex with another trans woman. The only way the story makes sense is if she is and considers herself to be straight or bisexual. Most bisexuals still just want to fuck regular men and regular women and avoid the mental gymnastics and emotional labor. So it's entirely possible that a bisexual woman would give a trans woman a try before deciding hard pass.

However, it is equally plausible that the woman is straight and maybe was curious about the situation or is trying to make a point that the women who have sex with trans women do not see the experience as lesbian (which it's not). She gives no indication that she's actually attracted to women. The closest she gets is by saying, "But if I wanted to have sex with a legitimate woman, I'd be expecting a vagina," which is entirely a hypothetical and even arguably implies that she doesn't want to have sex with a "legitimate woman."

In any case, I don't think this woman is an idiot. Her diction indicates that she is being clever about what she says and is not saying. I think she got exactly what she signed up for. She wanted to experiment and either confirmed that it was not for her or made a point to a colonizing trans woman.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T09:59:07+00:00

To me it sounds like being afraid to embrace being a lesbian fully - I guess it's because how this label tends to be used in porn settings and homosexuality has been always painted as somehow... more severely sexual than being straight?

From my observations, it’s the opposite. A woman who calls herself an “asexual lesbian” is already embracing the “lesbian” label, something that lesbians in denial and these days a large swath of out lesbians are reluctant to do. We realize we are lesbians because of our sexual feelings toward women but our sexuality does not look like the porn industry’s idea of “lesbian.”

Who is it that’s calling themselves “asexual lesbians?” It appears more often to be technical straight women who don’t want to be alone but have issues with their attraction to men. They strongly desire to be partnered and reap the benefits of a relationship. Hence they are not actually asexual. The “asexual” label is an excuse for them to avoid pussy and sexual stuff with women who their body is telling them they are not attracted to. They don’t like being in “relationships” with women because to them it’s just being gal pals. All the stereotypes like adopting pets together without the physical.

They ironically are not adverse to the “lesbian” label because they aren’t lesbians and don’t have to internalize any of the shit that comes with being an actual lesbian. Eventually, these women will end up with men, but they are trying to heel themselves with women first.

This is different from women who conceive of themselves as asexual/unable to be attracted to anyone before accepting their exclusive same-sex attraction to women. But those women are not going to simultaneously identify with asexuality and lesbianism because it’s the asexual self-conception that is the cope to avoid accepting factual lesbianism.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-12T02:10:05+00:00

I agree with you guys on this. There is a lot in here that is off on both sides. And it comes across as her playing it coy rather than being ignorant of the minefield that is interacting with trans women. Who in good faith would initiate this conversation by saying they enjoyed the night before, getting someone’s hopes up, and then indicating the exact opposite.

Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see her identify herself as a lesbian. As a lesbian, the only way this could possibly make sense to me that a woman would proceed to have sex with this person is if she’s bisexual and thought, “well, I like men and women and dick and pussy, so I should be into trans women too” and then she goes through with it and realizes the mindfuck, emotional labor, and cognitive dissonance involved, and decides “nope, not for me,” hence saying she’s not pansexual. If she’s been with both men and women, the experience would be akin to being with a man who is super needy, oversensitive, and probably unattractive. Hence her saying it was basically straight sex to her. Because if she’s had sex with women, it would have had absolutely zero in common with that experience.

Why deal with that when you can just be with regular men and regular women and skip the unattractive, draining mental gymnastics? Frankly nearly every woman has more options than that.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-10T14:41:59+00:00

Excellent article by Kate Harris. Also a lot of humor in it being a hardware store that brought attention to this issue and a lesbian having to explain to them why they're being twats.

She didn't say it, but the implication is there: Same-sex rights are inherently about freedom of association. Not allowing LGB to organize without the T is an inherently a contradiction to that, which exemplifies exactly why LGB wants to organize without T in the first place. Our interests are different and incompatible.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-09T17:34:22+00:00

Are you referring to amphetamines like Adderall? Are you against the use of amphetamines in the treatment of ADHD?

ETA: My tone is curious not accusatory, just to be clear.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-05T19:09:25+00:00

On the surface, this is a high quality article. I’m curious who wrote it. As I understand it, this is the website of the organization founded by Maya Forstater, who is not a lawyer, and this article appears to have been written by a lawyer.

I’m not as familiar with UK law but similar ideologically-motivated misconstructions of the law have happened in the U.S. For example, the Bostock SCOTUS opinion did not recognize “gender identity” as a protected category under Title VIi. Rather, it recognized that employment discrimination based on one’s “transgender status” is inherently discrimination based on one’s sex. The opinion seems to have deliberately avoided use of the words “gender identity” and did not define “transgender status” but emphasized the transition steps undertaken by plaintiff trans woman Aimee Stephens.

yousaythosethings · 2022-08-02T20:41:06+00:00

I agree with you. I kind of knew I was typing out something half-baked because I didn’t have the time to get my thoughts fully in order but the issue was nagging me. By childish I mainly mean the “fully support everything we say about transition or you’re responsible for suicide” narrative that people throw around causally to shut down conversation and shame people. I don’t think this article is on par with that. It’s more that I don’t want it to reach that point, that I want us to be mindful, and that when we talk about something potentially leading to suicide I think we must heighten our standards of discourse and really explain the context and the thought process without tending toward sensationalism.

I still think it’s nowhere near on the level of “give me exogenous cross-sex hormones immediately and with no scrutiny so I can grow breasts or I’ll inevitably kill myself.” Of course it’s helpful to point out that studies do not support that medical transition reduces suicidality and logically giving exogenous cross-sex hormones to people experiencing actual suicidal ideation may not only not help but might make things worse.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-31T21:59:09+00:00

This perspective is important and I don’t want to take away from that, but admittedly the headline quote makes me feel all 😬. I’ve gotten rather sensitive about the way TRAs guilt and extort people using vague threats of suicide, and this is just too close to that for my liking. We need to be really careful about how we discuss suicide and “I would have committed suicide if I had transitioned” is not that, you know? You also don’t KNOW you would have committed suicide in a hypothetical situation that did not happen.

I really don’t want this to be the norm of discourse. Statements like that are intended to shut down discussion not facilitate it. Quite frankly it’s a childish way to think and to try to change others’ opinions.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-30T21:42:00+00:00

Thank god. And I appreciate that Cass is levelheaded and not reactionary. This is the ideal way to uproot the influence of gender ideology on impressionable, vulnerable young kids.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-30T21:40:02+00:00

Word.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-29T03:26:07+00:00

Legal to discriminate on the basis of same-sex attraction: housing, workplace - Last year there was some talk about the "Equality Act", but the bill hasn't been passed, it only passed the House. So in many states, it's still legal to discriminate against someone on the basis of same-sex attraction. Also, that bill sucked because it would've made "gender identity" a protected characteristic, which makes zero sense because gender identity cannot be objectively defined.

The Equality Act would codify into law discrimination based on same-sex attraction by pronoun people because it eviscerates the concept of sex by effectively redefining sex as gender identity. It would muddy the law and offer us no protection against those who want to wear our skin and would make it even more difficult to call out what they’re doing and the effect it has on us.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-26T06:55:42+00:00

Well said. It is a childish way of thinking. Children think putting on a dinosaur costume makes you a dinosaur, putting on a Santa suit makes you Santa, and putting on a dress makes you a girl.

Ordinarily, we would find an adult who thinks this way to be mentally challenged, and we would not allow them to set policy for Christ’s sake and demand the terms on how the rest of us are to think and live our lives.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-23T11:50:57+00:00

For anyone in here who has any inclination to sympathize with the wife, don't. Her name is Amanda Jetté Knox. She's just as narcissistic and destructive toward LGB people as her husband. She went from looking like a basic white woman to someone engaging in stereotypical lesbian Cosplay beginning at the age of 40 when she and her husband decided to cash in on LGBTQ politics and make it their new career. This is all very amusing to her. She has since come out as non-binary and transed one of her sons. And I think she's also the one who wrote an op ed for the New York Times about wanting to expose her children to kink because it's an integral part of being LGBTQ.

The women who actively participate in this and court public attention and admiration for it are complicit, not victims. And sometimes are even groomers who actively want to trans their male partners so that they can pose as the dutiful, oh so supportive wife. She is no victim.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-22T03:55:53+00:00

You’ve said it more clearly than I did, but yes this is what I meant. By Democrats I’m referring to the Democratic politicians and their teams behind the bill. They’re basically forced to talk in the language of sex in the bill to achieve the result they want. Because when it comes to actual discrimination, it happens on the basis of one’s sex not their internal sense of self.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-21T22:02:51+00:00

Indeed. We should just start saying LGBTH or LGBTS with H being heterosexual and S being straight or spicy heterosexual.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-21T21:57:11+00:00

Always love to see your high quality commentary and analysis!

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-21T21:47:21+00:00

Yep, I’ve noted this welcome pivot as well and I personally make sure to use “legalization of same-marriage” and “right to same-sex marriage” in place of imprecise language like “marriage equality.”

Notably the marriage bill in question also refers to “sex” not gender because even the Democrats must recognize that “same-gender [identity]” marriage has never been outlawed or under threat, nor has the right of a heterosexual couple to call themselves gay.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-20T00:20:25+00:00

Very happy to see this progress! Also an important reminder of how many places same-sex marriage and adoption have not yet been legalized as of 2022. Slovenia is in the European Union after all, yet western LGBTQ organizations turned their attention years ago to increasingly more esoteric things and proclaimed them to be “human rights.”

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-20T00:08:27+00:00

I think Mermaids is seriously overplaying their hand here and I can’t wait to see them have their asses handed to them. They must feel really desperate and threatened by the LGB Alliance right now to pull a move like this. This is a Hail Mary move that I think will usher in their own downfall. It’s them who is going to end up under the microscope. They are so threatened by the existence of an LGB-only organization but they’re T-only. They have even worse standing to bring this case than Stonewall. It’s kind of hilarious actually.

While the LGB Alliance has run a tight ship and taken carefully deliberated steps, Mermaids is messy and drunk on their own feeling of infallibility. Get the popcorn out.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-10T20:30:28+00:00

To me he will always be a MySpace celebrity lol.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-10T20:27:49+00:00

Muslim parents living in a Muslim country and dude you are not in a relationship with whose primary concern is your fuckability would not be all that persuasive to most people in this circumstance.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-09T20:20:46+00:00

Thank you for the excellent breakdown! Shape Shifter has been making the rounds doing interviews with various YouTubers over the last couple of months. Notably across these interviews he shows an evolution of his thinking. When he was interviewed by Upperhand Mars (a non-reality-denying trans man) earlier, Shape Shifter then expressed interest in exploring a possible non-binary identification before now being of the mindset that the only way for him to identify now is as a feminine gay man using he/him pronouns.

I don't know if it was in this interview he did or another one (possibly with Arty Morty?), but I believe he mentioned the internal part of his penis is still within him and he still feels movement and sensations there, which basically serve as a constant reminder of his bottom surgery regret. I don't have a penis or know anything about the mechanics of that, but that sounds horrifying.

I feel very strongly for Shape Shifter. Despite being in obvious emotional distress about the fallout of his transition and English not being his first language, he is very articulate and blunt in how he describes his experience without veering into being sensationalistic. This is the kind of story that I don't know how anyone can just ignore and say it's not a big deal. From the outside many people would think this was a successful transition or "transition goals."

It's an important reminder that these are real people with entire lives before and after transition who are being failed by the system and censorship of complete and accurate information about medical and surgical transition. I also note that Shape Shifter is from a Muslim country, so it's not surprising that he would want to be viewed as something other than a gay man.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-07T13:21:50+00:00

I think for most there was some level of being aware of their desire for men and yet calling themselves lesbians for a variety of reasons (both push and pull factors) but it’s important to note that this is also a group characterized by black and white (lol BINARY) thinking. Feel any degree of attraction to women = lesbian. Have an emotionally fraught relationship with the male sex? Again, lesbian. In their minds.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-07T13:17:59+00:00

Excellent comment. Yes, this is what happens when people out of touch with their bodies start taking an exogenous hormone that heightens their sensations and desires making them harder to ignore or write off as something else, which they had been doing up to that point.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-06T21:52:47+00:00

You’re right but they’re essentially buying a credential that they can brag about when they talk about how LGBT friendly they are in marketing. The HRC does this in the U.S. with the Corporate Equality Index. It’s not even to attract LGBT people (duh), it’s to virtue signal to woke heterosexual recent grads that now expect to see this stuff or they mutiny.

There was also an issue of critical mass. Now it’s suspect when a major company doesn’t do this. So they pay the ransom money even if they otherwise weren’t inclined to.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-06T21:46:38+00:00

I looked into it, and yep, Black and Brown Workers Cooperative at it again. They’re the ones responsible for getting Philly Pride disbanded and canceled last year before taking over it, and they have a track record of doing this to other LGBT organizations to replace them with themselves. They don’t create their own institutions, just dismantle existing LGBT ones by accusing them of being racist, transphobic, etc. every single time. The only people benefiting from this are themselves.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-05T16:32:56+00:00

Thanks for this nugget of good news. And I think it’s totally appropriate for this sub for the reasons you stated.

yousaythosethings · 2022-07-04T14:50:56+00:00

Maybe it’s time to start referring to it as “cis gay marriage”? That wouldn’t include HSTS but they would have to be the ones to point out that it’s on the basis of their sex that their right to marry is threatened.

And all of the trans men so gung ho about centering themselves in the abortion conversation to the point that they are trying to interrupt women talking about it, they need to be asked what is it exactly that they’re dysphoric about again?

yousaythosethings · 2022-06-30T10:48:46+00:00

There are some states where I think a same-sex marriage law on its own could pass but now I worry that we will be extorted over the inclusion of far more controversial and ambiguating gender identity provisions.

yousaythosethings · 2022-06-30T10:46:39+00:00

I would have to take a look but I think the Windsor decision (rather than Obergefell) is based on the Equal Protection Clause rather than substantive due process like Obergefell so I think it would still stand even if the substantive due process argument underlying the nationwide legalization of same-sex marriage would be overturned based on the precedent set forth in the recent Dobbs decision. What that would mean is that the federal government still has to recognize marriages recognized by the states. So if your state recognizes your same-sex marriage, the federal government has to.

yousaythosethings · 2022-06-30T10:21:02+00:00

What state of transition are the TIM and TIF in in your ranking? Does the trans woman have a neovagina and breast implants? Does the trans man have a phalloplasty and double mastectomy? Bare minimum merely identifies as the opposite sex? Or somewhere in between?

yousaythosethings · 2022-06-29T16:36:57+00:00

Thanks! The full quote is quite accurate (unfortunately).

yousaythosethings