50 years after Stonewall we are now fighting bisexual people as well as heterosexuals for our right to same-sex attraction

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Oddly enough, a lot of the stigma towards bisexual men comes from straight women. Straight women love to coo over gay men and be 'fag hags' but when it comes to bisexual men, they act like these men are covered in poo. Their two biggest complaints are "I could never be with a man who takes it up the ass" (and yet you drool over gay boys???) and "he will cheat on me with some guy, they always do!" (like a straight man can't cheat on you with some woman??) and I also see a lot of "who knows what diseases he has?" (like straight men don't have diseases??)

I've tried really hard in the past to promote bisexual men as amazing sex partners to women (a man who knows what being penetrated feels like, and what being with a man feels like, is more likely to be gentle and attentive to a woman's needs blah blah) and I've managed to convince some women to re-examine their prejudices, but it's an uphill battle. Closeted bisexual and gay men who marry women and cheat on them really ruin it for the bisexual men who just want to find one person and be monogamous.

Anyway, let me not talk on behalf of bi men, this is just my experiences watching from the outside.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seriously? They'll fetishize men who won't be attracted to them and shun those that are? I thought that was a smaller group with high correlation with identifying as a man.

But I get the gist of what you mean about bi men having the opportunity to learn to be better in bed than straight men. The best lays I've had (as a bottom) were with versatile men. The total tops have no idea what they're doing because they don't know what feels good for a bottom as intimately as someone who has bottomed can

[–]reluctant_commenter 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

Straight women love to coo over gay men and be 'fag hags' but when it comes to bisexual men, they act like these men are covered in poo. Their two biggest complaints are "I could never be with a man who takes it up the ass" (and yet you drool over gay boys???) and "he will cheat on me with some guy, they always do!" (like a straight man can't cheat on you with some woman??)

Okay that is so strange. I have firsthand heard so many straight women be like "omg I love gay men" that I would think they'd be on board for bisexual men...

Maybe they have such an idealized view of gay men that they think gay men "don't take it up the ass" and only like, hold hands or some shit, lol.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I have spent years trying to psychoanalyze this because logically it makes no sense.

From what I can see, certain straight women see gay men as pets. Like these cute little things that love fashion and musicals and will go shopping with you - basically your Gay BFF. These men are safe because they would never rape you or perv on you, but... also... they're cute. They shave off all their body hair, they take care of themselves, they're pretty, they're feminine, they smell good, they wear make-up, they poop sparkly rainbows, and they are sooo sooo deliciously unattainable.

In these women's eyes, these gay men are pure and beautiful and magical. These women nurture these unrequited crushes on these BFFs (if they even get close enough to be BFFs, most of the time it's more like an uncomfortable acquaintance) and there is a "nice guy" quality to it. Like maybe, one day, if I hang around him enough, magically he will fall in love with me, throw me on the bed and have his way with me. Realistically they know this will never happen, but there is an irrational drive inside of them that makes them hope this anyway.

Meanwhile bisexual men are seen as easy to get, hold no challenge at all, and are dirty and promiscuous.

It's kind of like how MTFs obsess about lesbians. Something about knowing they will never get a lesbian turns them on. They don't get excited by bisexual women at all. The holy grail is the lesbian, us bi gals are chopped liver.

This is just me figuring this stuff out as an outsider looking in, so I don't how for sure if my opinions are correct. Straight women will deny deny deny that they have crushes on their gay male obsessions, but usually it's so obvious to everyone else around them, and so uncomfortable for the guy in question once he realizes what's happening. His female "best friend" is actually a female "nice guy."

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

From what I can see, certain straight women see gay men as pets. Like these cute little things that love fashion and musicals and will go shopping with you - basically your Gay BFF. These men are safe because they would never rape you or perv on you, but... also... they're cute. They shave off all their body hair, they take care of themselves, they're pretty, they're feminine, they smell good, they wear make-up, they poop sparkly rainbows, and they are sooo sooo deliciously unattainable.

Ok that checks out so, so much with my experience with this one straight woman in particular. That's so strange... but makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. I have heard straight women freak out over gay guys like this and never really understood it, just like, "Oh, that gay guy likes doing X feminine activity, cool." I guess not being attracted to men might be part of my lack of similar feeling, but it does sound like this subset of women REALLY idealizes gay men, to the point of not really seeing them as human agents.

Thank you for your service as the Straight Woman Whisperer. 🤣

Something about knowing they will never get a lesbian turns them on. They don't get excited by bisexual women at all. The holy grail is the lesbian, us bi gals are chopped liver.

Ok, these people seriously need therapy if they are so excited over something so unattainable. I mean that genuinely, like they might need some support in their lives. That does not okay them doing creepy fetishizing stuff, but still. And that is dumb that TRAs are so dismissive of bi people. These behaviors benefit none of us, bisexual/homosexual people alike.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And let me tell you! This idealization towards gay men is not exclusive from straight women. Although not so predominant, it sometimes happens with bi women as well. You have no idea 😂 I have a bi female friend which has a tendency to fall in love with gay guys (HER words, not mine!!). I've met her this year through college and I have a hard time making male friends unless they're feminine and preferenciably gay. The femininity aspect because it makes me so much easier to connect with someone Idk why. And it's best for me if they're gay because I instantly get 100% comfortable around them. It's like that invisible path we know "I don't like you that way and neither do you!". But idgf about being their bff or something of the sort lmao. And I met a feminine gay guy and I noticed my female friend (who didn't know I was a lesbian yet) got very defensive when I talked to him and I couldn't understand why????? I was like, he's gay lady???? And I'm a lesbian although you don't know but you know he's gay so? 😂 It was later when she told me she usually crushes on gay guys and suddenly everything made sense LMAO. God, we gays and lesbians can't have peace can we? xD

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

ETA: I was about to make a similar comment about some straight women seeing gay men as their BFFs when I glanced down and saw yours. I agree.

The holy grail is the lesbian, us bi gals are chopped liver.

Pardon me for saying so, but I hope they continue to always see bisexual women as chopped liver. I am not in any way missing out by not being pursued by them. (And...I have been. So I am extra careful to not be out around them because twice now I've seen this bizarre logic pass over them in which "sleeps with women sometimes" = "will sleep with me of course." And I'm not talking about TRAs, either. And still, I feel like some sort of carnival ride that's selling tickets and they want to get on, when they realize I'm not straight.)

And my hands are full already helping our lesbian and gay sisters and brothers deal with this shit.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Haha yes! Team chopped liver forever! I'm so glad to be repulsive to trans people! It's just so amazing how psychological their fetish is. All it takes is one label between then being turned on by you and you being invisible to them.

But I'd like to hear your POV about the Gay BFF thing. Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in an echo-chamber in my own head and it's good to compare notes with other people who've noticed the same things.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, I haven't observed it in the wild in some time but my impression was always that it was kind of a schoolgirl crush / groupie thing. In other words the women doing that aren't all that mature anyway. So they're reacting to certain traits of certain gay men as if they just made a new BFF, but also doing some cognitive dissonance by ignoring whatever the fact that he's a dude is stirring up in them. It seemed childish to me.

I mean there's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive but do remember they're a human being and don't be an ass. Same reason you should leave celebrities alone when you see them walking down the street. Don't intrude.

As for bisexual men being better lovers, I can only say: I've had three, and they are decidedly better lovers than straight men in my experience, statistically-insignificant though it might be. I would pick a bisexual man over a straight man any day, all other things being equal. Never occurred to me to see them as "tainted" any more than I would be, by sleeping with a man. I mean, let's not be hypocritical, here. (Straight women who think bisexual men are "tainted" don't see the hypocrisy, apparently.)

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Haha same! If I had to end up with a man, I would much prefer it to be a bisexual man. (And the same, with women.) It's sad that we bisexuals never had a culture where we had bi-only spaces where bi people dating other bi people was normalized.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would totally go for that. I sort of by-default ended up in a community that has a lot of bisexual people in it, and at least until woke TRA nonsense started to infiltrate (more among the straight people), and even though I haven't been interested in dating them for the most part (because gosh, we're just as selective as most other people, imagine), I've been much happier, because that whole topic is just out of the way. Nobody cares, nobody is uptight, nobody is fighting for some sort of turf. It's lovely. And the rest don't care that we're bisexual. So it's just like your hair color—no big deal. It's just more relaxed, in some unmistakable, fundamental way, as a social group.

And I agree about bisexual women. Bisexual people—and I feel like I've known enough (dozens at least, and I've known more L and G folks) to say something credible about this—all seem more relaxed. There's no better word. It's easier to be around them. Nobody's insecure or suspicious about anything. We can just be people. There's no maneuvering. Or judging people because of who they've slept with. It's not a topic anyone cares about. So yeah, I'd move to Bi Island in a hot second. As long as we're talking mature, healthy, sane, adult bisexual people like the ones I personally know.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have spent years trying to psychoanalyze this because logically it makes no sense.

Same here! Especially since I myself prefer bi men! (And bi women, too, for that matter.) So it's a perpetual mystery that my straight counterparts can't see the appeal.

As best I can tell, it's because they don't even consider these men to BE bi in the first place (since, of course, there's no such thing). Meaning that they must be either straight or gay.

For men, "straight" is defined less as a matter of being attracted to women than of NOT being attracted to men. Women aren't entitled to men's love/desire (the way that men are entitled to women's); attraction to them matters mainly as proof that a man isn't gay. THAT'S the important thing. Why? Because male desire is perceived as an act of dominance; it puts the recipient in a subordinate, demeaned-- otherwise known as "female"-- role. So directing that at fellow men insults them, and wanting that FROM them is "humiliating". Taboo either way.

Therefore, if a man is male-attracted... he's gay. Because female attraction doesn't really even count.

The upshot of all this being: these women see bi men not only as gay men, but as BAD gay men. Since, if they say they're attracted to women, that CAN'T possibly be true: must mean they're closet cases-- self-hating, in denial, disloyal to the gay community... liars. To themselves, and, particularly, to women. Whom they're trying to fool, of course, into believing that these men could ever really want them, or love them.

So... that's what I think is really going on here.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

These straight women tend to only like “camp” gay men. And I’m not talking about effeminate gay men, but gay men who obsess over fashion, drag queens, musicals, hairdressing, pride parades, romance flicks, shallow music and interior decorating, while talking in a stereotypical lispy voice. These fag-hags find the buttsecks gross, but they still want their pet homosexuals to be their servants and validate them. These fag hags wouldn’t be interested in friendships with gay men who are masculine, or effeminate gay men who think for themselves, because those gay men aren’t “tame”. Those gay men aren’t “neutered”. When a man is bisexual, he’s fucking, so he’s not “tame”.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Yes either the camp ones or the really pretty ones, and with the pretty ones it's like something wild happens to their brains. All logic and reason disappears. They know the dude is gay, they know they have no chance, but they still follow him around like a slobbering puppy and get intensely jealous when any other girl tries to talk to him.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do they get jealous when another man talks to the pretty gay guy?

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

No, that's "sssoooo cuuuuute"

(and then go home and cry at night into their pillows probably)

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just as I suspected.