What Causes Homosexuality? -- Horseshoe Theory In Action

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 35 insightful - 19 fun35 insightful - 18 fun36 insightful - 19 fun -  (10 children)

Childhood trauma is so incredibly common. It's amazing that the whole world isn't LGB with a few stray straights lurking in the shadows and mating in secret.

[–]reluctant_commenter 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

RIGHT?! Like if it ACTUALLY caused you to be LGB then so many more people would be LGB, by the numbers!!!

edit: Just throwing in for visibility purposes-- this website is apparently maintained by a group of Muslim "researchers" who use liberal homophobia (gender identity ideology) to support the claims of their conservative homophobia. Horseshoe theory, indeed. Check the About page.

Also sorry if I seem pissed but I was fed this particular lie, growing up. Hits close to home.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Were you able to find the name of the researchers? I just want to figure out what their origin country is, before the UK.

The gender-ideology thing is really unusual, because besides Iran, Muslims don't, or aren't supposed to believe in gendered souls. Men are men and Women are women. End of story. You die and go to heaven as a man with your 10billion transparent houri virgins and that's it. If you're a woman and you somehow manage not to end up in hell, you get to sit in a corner in your husband's heaven eating popcorn while you watch your husband bang his houris. If you think about it, the only way for women to get the fun version of heaven is to get the sex change. (Also, I should add that this isn't shit all muslims believe, I think it depends on what country you're from and what they've been teaching you. In my country we believe good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. What sex your body happens to be doesn't matter. Also, heaven is the place closest to god and it's warm with his light and feels like being intensely loved, and hell is the place furthest away from god and feels cold and empty. It's not like clouds and harps and flames and other cartoony stuff. I'm a non-believer, I'm just trying to explain.)

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Dr. Sadiq Muhammad is the only name I can find on the site; everything else yields no information. Googled the name and there is a Dallas, Texas doctor by that name with crappy Google ratings (that I couldn't seem to open). It might be a one-man show.

Thanks for explaining! That's interesting, makes sense :) yeah I wouldn't be surprised if only a few people are involved in this website, if the beliefs are not internally consistent.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Dr. Sadiq Muhammad

Shit... That could be a lot of countries... If he's UK-based, possibly Pakistani... And I keep seeing that they're getting involved in this gender/trans nonsense too because of influence from Iran. But I don't know enough about their beliefs to contribute anything useful :C But yeah, Islam is very much like Christianity, you know how they're all Christians, but you have the Baptists, and the Catholics, and the Mormons, and the Jehovah's Witnesses and all of that. They all worship the same dude, but very differently. In the Muslim world, different countries believe different things and it's all influenced from the culture, law, and society. For example, in my country, we are taught that Mohammed only had 4 wives. If you look online you can see the guy married, divorced, and hooked up with so many people he barely had time to do anything else. There is a lot of cherry-picking going on.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There is a lot of cherry-picking going on.

Sounds just like the different Christian sects then, hahaha. No worries!

[–]Preachy_Jerk 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Does everyone know that Muslims inbreed? Everyone should know. Lower IQ, higher risk of mental retardation, psychological disorders, and all sorts of health problems, and that's if you're lucky enough to avoid being born with spinal muscular atrophy or some other horrific and painful lifetime condition. Hundreds of kids are born permanently disabled in the UK every year because of cousin marriage. Wealthy Arab countries top the list for incidence of birth defects.

But they can't do anything about it, since their perfect role model Mohammed married two of his first cousins. So either Mohammed was a fraud, or Allah wanted his followers to have health problems and lower IQ.

I used to be all citizen-of-the-world, all religions are part of the same truth kinda guy... But Islam sucks. It really sucks.

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Straight people would be just as open about their shitty childhoods if they were so pressured to dissect and navel-gaze about how much it influenced them... or if being heterosexual was so non-traditional that certain rules such as "we just don't talk about that" and "that doesn't happen in OUR family" lost their power.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a great point, I'd never thought about that before. Double standard.

[–]usehername[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I literally loled.

[–]Rag3 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How I cackled when I read your comment. 🤣

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Intersex individuals (i.e.: individuals with no clear classification of male/female) usually follow in the sexual orientation consistent with their gender identity. This demonstrates that sexual orientation is born out of psychological gender, rather than one’s biological gender.

This is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 intersex people DO have a clear classification of male/female. Klinefelter Syndrome (XXY Male) is one of the most common intersex conditions and NO ONE considers them "third sex" or female.

Intersex people are also far less likely to have a "gender identity" because we don't have the privilege of needing to make up fake "oppression." I am not male because I have a "male gender identity", I am male because I have a clearly developed penis.

That their homosexuality was related to their gender dissatisfaction is supported by the fact that designation of intersex infants as male or female has been shown to work best when the least genital reconstructive surgery is needed; the more masculine the genitalia appears already, the greater the success and satisfaction there will be with a male gender identity, and vice versa with a female gender identity. This is pointed out by Wisnieweski and Migeon when they explain that for patients with congenital micropenis, male sex of rearing was concluded optimal because genital reconstructive surgery is not required with this choice.12 As would be expected, genital surgery plays a large part in undermining the assigned gender of the child, by making them believe that their gender grouping is forced or artificial, thus making them more prone to self-identify with the gender opposite to their rearing. This is supported additionally by the recent work of Reiner and Gearhart13 who demonstrated that genetic males with Cloacal Exstrophy – a condition that leads to severe pelvic malformation and requires extensive surgery – have higher rates of gender dissatisfaction.

Oh look this article is literally advocating for cosmetic, abusive surgery on children. Intersex people don't experience "gender dissatisfaction" because we need invasive and botched genital surgeries, we experience it BECAUSE our society is so hung up on fake bullshit like gender roles and "gender identity" that we feel like, and are treated as, less than human because a lot of us have androgynous traits and thus don't "fit."

[–]usehername[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for your input.

[–]usehername[S] 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I came across this site trying to look for genuine research into the causes of homosexuality and instead found this horrible case of conservative homophobia reinforced by liberal homophobia. The website is run by Muslim "researchers" who define sexual orientation as being based on gender identity (thanks, reluctantcommenter). I posted this before, but it was filtered out by Automod. A long-time lurker, I immediately made an account after seeing this site just to post it, but Automod wanted post history.

Particularly damning quote:

"Decades of research have not provided any clear genetic or hormonal mechanisms that would mean homosexual men are born “feminised” or homosexual women are born “masculinised”. What we do find however is that the gender identity of homosexual individuals in childhood, is significantly disrupted as a result of dysfunctional relationships with heterosexual role models of the same gender and members of the same-gender peer groups. This demonstrates that homosexual orientation is dependent in such cases, not on biological gender differences, but on psychological gender differences. This supports the notion that homosexuality is the product of a psychological gender-identity disorder, born out of a failure to identify and receive acceptance from other members of the same biological gender group, whether they be parents or peers. Sexual orientation is only one part of this gender identity disorder. This is demonstrated by the fact that gender non-conformity in childhood is the most powerful predictor of later homosexuality. This development of a psychological gender-identity of the opposite sex, as evinced by childhood gender non-conformity, strangely demonstrates that gay individuals are actually expressing a heterosexual orientation through their homosexual desire. The same goes for gay women, vice-versa. Since they psychologically consider themselves as belonging to the opposite sex, they develop homosexual attractions to members of their own biological gender. More than that, homosexual cravings are also it seems rooted in a desire for acceptance and affection from members of one’s biological gender, a desire that becomes sexualised with adolescence, resulting in early adolescent homosexual experiences."

TLDR: They assert that homosexuality is mostly caused by social factors such as peer rejection and having a bad relationship with one's parents, and is a "gender identity disorder".

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I... trying to look for genuine research into the causes of homosexuality

Top of my head:

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2019/06/04/1809920116.full.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul_Vasey/publication/301639075_Sexual_Orientation_Controversy_and_Science/links/577c303a08ae355e74f16c18/Sexual-Orientation-Controversy-and-Science.pdf

This should get you started, there's more, of course. It's generally understood to be a combination of genetics, epigenetics, and environment--which should be taken to mean overwhelmingly neonatal environment--biology--not middle childhood. It's important to recognize that there are multiple aetiologies.

It's not perfectly understood how homosexuality comes to be or why it persists in our species, but we do have some fairly good ideas about it. It would be wrong to say "nobody knows what makes people gay."

[–]usehername[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you.

[–]mvmlego 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for the links. Regarding the first one: based on the paragraph that includes the paper's first mention of the word "twin", it appears that the genetic component only accounts for homosexuality in 32% of cases. Am I interpreting this properly?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, it's not that 32% of homosexual men are gay because they inherited it. It is the odds ratio of genetic inheritability when you've already got homosexual men in your lineage.

[–]mvmlego 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, thank you.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Someone should post this on /r/lgbt. They are so gleefully enamoured of Islam in those circles they’d probably agree with it and upvote it to the front page.

[–]homosomes 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is so clearly written by someone who has no idea what it's like being gay. Wow, this actually made me mad.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is likely some degree of truth in how early experiences can affect or influence somebody's sexuality, but it does not explain how myself, and likely a good number of other people, have had a perfectly fine and stable childhood and yet still turned out to be gay.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same with me!

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

God I wish that were me

[–]fuck_reddit 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is utterly astounding in how ridiculous it is. They have to re-engineer the universe with the most convoluted system to make their world view work. It used to be simple. People are born in one of two discernible sexes. Sexuality is based on sex. Now it's all "people develop a gender-identity which they act out in an infinite number of ways, when they turn 7.346 years old they begin the process of sexualizing their gender-identity, although this is subject to change based on the phase of the moon." I guess we're all just broken in their minds...