I Signed Up to Study Sexual Health. What I Got Was Gender Ideology, Fetishism, and Porn

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[–]GConly 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

. I was not "born gay" (No one is, and saying so is ridiculous as claiming someone was "born kinky"

You can produce gay animals by messing about with their prenatal hormones. You can spot sex abnormalities in homosexuals with a brain scan too.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

You can spot sex abnormalities in homosexuals with a brain scan too.

So is this you finally admitting it's a disorder/abnormality or are you going to now backtrack & bullshit your way back to "N-NO GAY IS PERFECT, IT'S BETTER THAN STRAIGHT, IT'S INTENDED!" like people on this sub always do?

I've been saying it's a disorder for years. I think it's a brain abnormality, absolutely! Because I don't think it's a coincidence I have other neurological issues. But until proven otherwise I don't think it's something you're inherently born with. You can be born with brain damage but also get it later in life. It's not exclusive. Plus the "gay gene" has been heavily debunked.

I was not miraculously given the "gift" of homosexuality by God when I was concieved. If I was "predestined" to be gay before I was born, it was likely some other factor, like brain damage in the womb or at birth, that caused me to be that way.

I might get yelled at for saying this but this is what I believe. It is the only logical explanation to me.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Abnormal is not inherently a value judgment. It just means sufficiently statistically different from an identifiable majority.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

That's also correct. But again, people on this sub usually shit their rainbow/Labrys patterned adult diapers when you say the word "abnormal" because they somehow get it conflated with "immoral."

And while I do believe homosexuality is negative, I mean it in a health sense, not a moral one. It's not immoral for me to be depressed, for example, but depression is bad because it severely, negatively impacts my life.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Idk I find the people in here infinitely more reasonable and realistic when it comes to discussions about the realities of homosexuality and bisexuality. Which is why we’re not trying to tear down the fabric of society to cater to our every whim or acting like society shouldn’t pretend that the vast majority of people are straight.

I hope you find whatever you need to treat your depression though.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That has not been my experience. Usually I just see people denying science and reality (when it suits them, of course. Science is only valid when it invalidates TRA arguments, otherwise it's "homophobic" lol) and screeching "homophobia" at anything from me saying "Hey I'm not having a good time being gay" to a bi person calling themself gay once.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

people on this sub usually shit their rainbow/Labrys patterned adult diapers when you say the word "abnormal" because they somehow get it conflated with "immoral."

From what I've seen of the almost always argumentative conversations you have on here, people tend to attack you more because you often conflate your personal traumatic experiences with homosexuality itself, rather than the corrosive social climate that surrounds it. It's always a very defeatist and negative tone from you, with all the tact of a brick through a window.

The ideal mean of reddit's overly sanitized policed speech and something like /pol/'s complete lack of any filter whatsoever is the kind of empathy and decency one would hope to see in day to day interactions. I.E not consistently phrasing your arguments in a way that shadows a religious fundamentalist calling us all freaks.

You're not the only one here who has been abused on account of your sexuality. If you want people to be more respectful in their responses to you, I'd consider being more respectful in the way you frame your talking points. Otherwise, you're probably just going to get kneejerk reactions from people who hear the voices of people who have attacked them in the past in your words.

A little less generalizing would probably help, too. That's a bad habit of yours, and it's personally turned me off of wanting to engage in conversation with you several times because it's often too big a roadblock to bother overcoming in a conversation with someone online.

It's all up to you, though; you can always continue as you have, no one is stopping you. But you're probably not going to convince anyone when you always come off as contrarian and provocative - a successful discourse requires more than the courage to bring up polarizing topics.

Got nothing on the biphobia though, that puzzles me just as much and seems to be another kneejerk reaction.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

NO GAY IS PERFECT, IT'S BETTER THAN STRAIGHT, IT'S INTENDED!" like people on this sub always do?

Never saw this, but eh...

Plus the "gay gene" has been heavily debunked.

Because the idea of a single gene that indicates homossexuality is something only people illiterate on genetics thinks exist. Even simple things like patellar reflexes have multiple genes linked into them, not just a single one.

So it might be the case that homossexuality is dictated by millions genes and not a single one, but who knows? Genetics are complicated and most discussions on the subject are superficial.

like brain damage in the womb or at birth, that caused me to be that way.

What you classify as "brain damage"? Because I don't think it means what you think it means.

Im medicine, "brain damage" is used most of the time to refer to damage caused by trauma, not emotional trauma, but physical trauma like bumps, direct impacts to the head or even degenerative deseases.

Now, brain development issues are on a whole other level and even them have their set of interesting nuances, for instance, let's pick autism for a moment: high functioning autists have been known for having some of the highest IQ scores and to grow to be great inventors and scientists that changed the history of humanity. Do people consider them to be 'damaged' in any way? No, they don't.

In the end of the day what constitutes a disorder or not can be very subjective, unfortunately.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Do people consider them to be 'damaged' in any way? No, they don't.

Uh... yes they do. The social and sensory issues of autism (and related disorders) can be debilitating to live with, depending on severity. They're also not all geniuses. I think it's naive and disrespectful to treat autism like a "superpower" when I've heard countless autistic people wish they were normal & didn't have to deal with it. Source: Grew up in some kind of special ed school, knew a lot of autistic kids. And surprise, I am no "super genius" either. I'm just dumb.

You could argue that almost any disorder or illness has a silver lining. "Depressed people often try to make others laugh," "Cancer patients are inspiring and brave", etc. This does not mean they are not disorders, or that they are good things.

I think you might be derailing here. It does not matter HOW I was neurologically damaged, what matters is that I am. And that is why I believe I'm homosexual, among other things. I have no reason to believe homosexuality is genetic, and honestly, although I'm far from an optimist I'd rather believe that this is damage I have a chance to recover from, than something that was "destined" for me since before I was born. I don't feel like homosexuality is "part of me" like my ethnicity, hair color, body type, or anything else, and I don't want it to be. I cannot see it as anything other than an aberration that should not be there. It negatively impacts my quality of life and I genuinely believe I will never be happy for as long as it stays. I simply cannot believe it is "as nature intended" or a gift from a higher power.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Uh... yes they do.

I never saw anyone call Einstein or Newton 'damaged' in any way, but again, this might be just me...

The social and sensory issues of autism (and related disorders) can be debilitating to live with, depending on severity. They're also not all geniuses. I think it's naive and disrespectful to treat autism like a "superpower" when I've heard countless autistic people wish they were normal & didn't have to deal with it. Source: Grew up in some kind of special ed school, knew a lot of autistic kids. And surprise, I am no "super genius" either. I'm just dumb.

That's why I took pains to differentiate high funcioning autists from low funcioning autists, as they aren't the same. Most people when speaking about the subject tend to only talk about the second and not the first, interestingly enough.

I have no reason to believe homosexuality is genetic

This is not a matter of subjectivity.

I'm far from an optimist I'd rather believe that this is damage I have a chance to recover from, than something that was "destined" for me since before I was born. I simply cannot believe it is "as nature intended" or a gift from a higher power.

This cope won't help you with anything.

Want some advice? Maybe the problem is not with homossexuality itself, but with you. If you don't give more value to the life you have right now, then you will still suffer, homossexual or not.

This is the same thought process most 'eggs' have: "if I was the opposite sex my life would be so much easier, I would be so much popular and so on, so on.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because it's all a matter of perspective. Historical figures are glamorized and often we never know the truth about them.

Yeah but then you get to a point where, if they truly have no negative symptoms, are they really autistic or just smart?

This is not a matter of subjectivity.

Yes it is. It's literally unproven

Want some advice? Maybe the problem is not with homossexuality itself, but with you. If you don't give more value to the life you have right now, then you will still suffer, homossexual or not.

No, the problem is homosexuality. I'd like myself just fine if I was able to have a normal sexual/romantic relationship and not have to hate myself because I'm turned on by the people who hate me and want to harm me/ being in an abusive/rapey relationship. I DID like myself just fine back when I was/believed I was straight. Even though I was treated like shit by others and told I was inherently bad, I still was happy until homosexuality kicked in.

This is the same thought process most 'eggs' have: "if I was the opposite sex my life would be so much easier, I would be so much popular and so on, so on.

Irrelevant and not comparable. Sex cannot be changed and is very physical. Orientation isn't. I was born male, no, I was male before I was even born, yet I did not become homosexual until many years after I was born.

It's more like saying "If I wasn't depressed my life would be easier" or "If I didn't have neurological issues that made me emotionally volatile, people would like me more." Both of which aren't untrue, anyway.

I don't think my line of thinking is the problem. Why wouldn't I be unhappy with the fact that I'm not attracted to people who would treat me decently/as an equal (women) and that I exclusively have an involuntary, unwanted, extremely stressful sexual attraction to dangerous sex acts with the people who don't even see me as human? The answer is not just to "love myself for being broken and accept that I'm destined to be some guy's sex object." That's not living. And unless you're also going to give me a lecture about how great being depressed is and how I need to stop trying to recover, and just embrace being a shut in and never cleaning the house, then I think you need to question your point there.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes it is. It's literally unproven

No it's not. "Unproven" is not the same as "proven negative".

There is a difference.

No, the problem is homosexuality. I'd like myself just fine if I was able to have a normal sexual/romantic relationship and not have to hate myself because I'm turned on by the people who hate me and want to harm me/ being in an abusive/rapey relationship.

No, it's you and specifically your low self-steem.

You as an independent human being have the capability of saying no to any sexual enconter. If you feel a sexual partner doesn't respect you as a person, even if you are attracted to them, there's still the option of not letting them fuck you.

Spoiler: if you don't impose some self-respect people, men and woman alike, won't respect you. I wish this wasn't the case, but we live in a world with a lot of shitty people.

Irrelevant and not comparable. Sex cannot be changed and is very physical. Orientation isn't.

If sexual orientation can be changed then why aren't you straight yet?

I was male before I was even born, yet I did not become homosexual until many years after I was born.

That's how sexuality works in general: gay, straight or bissexual.

Why wouldn't I be unhappy with the fact that I'm not attracted to people who would treat me decently/as an equal (women

You already presume much.

If you were straight you would learn that they also haven't it easy when the subject is dating. You would also probably be the type of person that complains about how women only want you because fo money, status or some shit. Nothing would change.

Women can be as cruel as men, you just don't seem to know it yet.

The answer is not just to "love myself for being broken and accept that I'm destined to be some guy's sex object."

I never said it was.

It might be cruel what I'm going to tell you, but it's necessary: you are only a "sexual object" because you allow this to be the case. As I said before, you have the capability to say no, to refuse to be turned into an sex object.

You are using homossexuality as an excuse for your own lack of willpower and low standards.

Like I said before: the problem is you

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Omfg this is insane.

"Being gay is genetic!!!"

"No it's not. That's never been proven."

"W-well that's not the same as being DISPROVEN!"

So... are you saying that, despite there's no evidence supporting it (and quite a lot of evidence against it), that we're supposed to believe it's true until definitively proven otherwise?

If that's so, why am I not allowed to believe that homosexuality is a disorder? That's never been disproven either.

No, it's you and specifically your low self-steem.

It has nothing to do with self esteem, other than that homosexuality contributed to low self esteem when I previously didn't have it.

You as an independent human being have the capability of saying no to any sexual enconter. If you feel a sexual partner doesn't respect you as a person, even if you are attracted to them, there's still the option of not letting them fuck you.

Yes and? That doesn't stop them from trying. That doesn't stop the influx of guys asking me to participate in degrading sexual acts, or the mere fact that there is no male interested in me who will NOT ask me do these things so I cannot have any healthy relationship.

If sexual orientation can be changed then why aren't you straight yet?

Mental illness can be recovered from, but I have not rid of my depression yet.

Just because sexuality can change doesn't mean it's a choice, just as how depression can be recovered from does not mean it's as simple as "choosing to be happy." If I what I believe is true; that homosexuality in me was caused by neurological issues and/or trauma, it could take YEARS to fix. If it's trauma based, that stuff is hard to get over, especially without help. And considering no one currently offers help for sexuality it means change is very difficult.

But I have no reason to believe it's impossible for me to get better. If I was "definitively, intentionally gay" and it could never be changed, why do I have straight urges inside (even if I am not aroused by them) and like the idea of being able to have a female partner?

That's how sexuality works in general: gay, straight or bissexual.

So which is it, "sexuality can never be changed" or "Nobody is born that way and we gain it later in life due to experiences"

Because those statements contradict each other.

If you were straight you would learn that they also haven't it easy when the subject is dating. You would also probably be the type of person that complains about how women only want you because fo money, status or some shit. Nothing would change.

Lol... no I wouldn't.

Firstly there is a big difference between being upset that the only people who are into you want to abuse and degrade you, and being pissed that people just want you for money. I'd rather be robbed than be sexually mistreated, they're not comparbale.

Secondly I have no money and status, and I don't think I ever will, so why would I ever complain about that? Plus the women who have been interested in me in the past seemed nice and normal. I have never had that experience with a man.

you are only a "sexual object" because you allow this to be the case.

Oh so victim blaming. It's my fault for men approaching me with "Hey bitch boy let me rape you" and no shred of love, because...? What? How can I fix anything? I can't simply magically choose to attract the mythical "good guys." I don't believe they exist but even if they did, I cannot use mind control. I cant magically make the abusive guys disinterested in my sexually and make the "good ones" like me.

Guess what, idiot. I say no ALL THE TIME. I don't consent to sex with abusive men. Unfortunately I have still had sex with guys Im not attracted to but I have NEVER consented to an abuser or a guy who treats me that bad. But that doesn't stop them from showing interest, and like I said, THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO GUYS INTERESTED IN ME WHO WERE DECENT. That is BEYOND my control.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Being gay is genetic!!!"

"No it's not. That's never been proven."

"W-well that's not the same as being DISPROVEN!"

This is a strawman, as I never said such thing.

So... are you saying that, despite there's no evidence supporting it (and quite a lot of evidence against it), that we're supposed to believe it's true until definitively proven otherwise?

Indeterminate means indeterminate, not true or false.

If that's so, why am I not allowed to believe that homosexuality is a disorder? That's never been disproven either.

Yes it has, by a long time.

Disorder, by the medical definition of the word, is what have the potential of causing suffering to the patient. Homossexuality has been removed from the DSM because it, by itself, doesn't bring suffering to the homossexual.

The exception to this is egodistionic homosexuality, which is a totally different can of worms.

Now, you are allowed to believe in anything you want, but don't try to pass your beliefs as fact.

It has nothing to do with self esteem, other than that homosexuality contributed to low self esteem when I previously didn't have it.

Yes it has, as your words prove.

Just because sexuality can change doesn't mean it's a choice, just as how depression can be recovered from does not mean it's as simple as "choosing to be happy." If I what I believe is true; that homosexuality in me was caused by neurological issues and/or trauma, it could take YEARS to fix. If it's trauma based, that stuff is hard to get over, especially without help. And considering no one currently offers help for sexuality it means change is very difficult.

Cope, cope harder.

If what you said previouly is true, and you are indeed russian then you have acces to 'help for sexuality', as gay conversion therapy is not banned there. Why don't you try it if you are so desperate?

If I was "definitively, intentionally gay" and it could never be changed, why do I have straight urges inside (even if I am not aroused by them) and like the idea of being able to have a female partner?

Go for it them, nobody is stopping you. Hell, some people would be very happy for you!

So which is it, "sexuality can never be changed" or "Nobody is born that way and we gain it later in life due to experiences"

Because those statements contradict each other.

The men is really made of straw, isn't? What I meant by that is that no one gets out of the womb already horny for anyone. Sexuality generaly manifests itself after puberty.

Using the "I haven't been born feeling attracted to men" as a gotcha moment for the assertion that homossexuality can't be inborn is stupid, so stupid in fact that not even religious quacks use it as an argument!

Lol... no I wouldn't.

Yes, you would. I know your types very well.

Firstly there is a big difference between being upset that the only people who are into you want to abuse and degrade you, and being pissed that people just want you for money. I'd rather be robbed than be sexually mistreated, they're not comparbale.

This is subjective, as there's men that have no problem with sexually foward woman but can't cope with being used as status ladder. You only experienced the first and not the second, so you say this from a place of inexperience.

And being used for your status is not the same as being robbed lol

Unfortunately I have still had sex with guys Im not attracted to but I have NEVER consented to an abuser or a guy who treats me that bad. But that doesn't stop them from showing interest, and like I said, THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO GUYS INTERESTED IN ME WHO WERE DECENT. That is BEYOND my control.

So this is a case of "I'm so opressed, people that I want to sleep with aren't interested in me! Help, I'm opressed!"

This is worse then I thought! You are no different from the TRAs, not a bit. Guess what? This makes your "victim blaming" acusation even more disgusting, as you are comparing yourself to actual rape victmins.

How assuring...so this is a case of sexual entitlement and not low self-steem. All of my sympathy for you has been lost, all of it.

You aren't entitled to sex with people you find attractive, not of a second. If that's your problem just learn to wait for a person you yould find attractive to be interested in you, or just cope with your singleness.

That's what a good portion of humanity already does, so your not special.

[–]GConly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

is this you finally admitting it's a disorder/abnormality or are you going to now backtrack & bullshit your way back to "N-NO GAY IS PERFECT, IT'S BETTER THAN STRAIGHT, IT'S INTENDED

Stop being hysterical. The difference is purely down to being intermediate between what's normal for the sexes.

It's not damage. It's not even abnormal for a human, just not normal for a human of that sex.

Also has sod all to do with genes, so not sure why you went all 'gay gene' on us.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is damage lol. Seriously, if you had to live my life you wouldn't still hold the opinion that it's benign. It's pretty fucking obvious that in both myself and others, it's a clear sign of neurological/sexual issues & most homosexuals are far from healthy, but nobody will see it that way because they're too hung up on their bullshit "love is love, rainbows and flamboyancy, I was born this way reeee" religion.

And I'm not the one being hysterical considering I don't believe in science-denying crap about homosexuality being some totally intentional good thing that some of us were "blessed" with.

[–]kwallio 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

fmri studies are not very reproducible and imo not really scientific.

https://www.studyfinds.org/scientists-admit-controversial-conflict-that-casts-doubt-on-studies-using-fmri-brain-scans/ They seem to be really great at confirming the investigators biases, tho, which is why they are so popular I guess.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well for a start read what you post.

The MRI studies show structural differences in gay brains. Your article was about not about MRI studies looking at structure, but activity.

The article:

Research scientists often use functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) to measure the brain activity of individuals as they perform tasks.

They say that fMRI studies are great for identifying the general brain structures involved when people are performing an activity

Not even vaguely a debunk of MRI studies looking at brain structures.

You do know MRIs are used routinely in medicine to locate tumors etc?

[–]kwallio 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It would help me believe you if you didn't make it sound like you don't know the difference between MRI and fMRI. I know what an MRI is, I've had one. People really really want fMRI to be a thing, but the field has really not gotten to the point where reproducibility is a thing that happens. I, for one, don't believe fMRI studies and I don't think anyone else should either. They are very good at proving peoples biases are totally real tho!