DiscussionAnyone kind of afraid that they'll never have a positive outlook on the trans community?

submitted by Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I’m glad you mentioned “Why Does He Do That?” Another relevant book is “The Gift of Fear.” I’ve been thinking about how these two books used to be recommended all the time in r/relationships. Idk if they still are, but if they are, it’s very ironic because they are fervently pro-trans there. It used to be that they prioritized women but now it’s trans people they prioritize.

Anyway, everything that TRAs push on us is directly contradictory to The Gift Of Fear, which teaches us to trust and not ignore our instincts when it comes to signs of danger, red flags, and something being very off. Now we are told that if we listen to our accurate instincts, we are bigots.

I’m scared for young people growing up in this but especially for young girls and gay kids. They are going to suffer the most because they are going to be the biggest victims of this ideology and they won’t be able to talk about their experiences out of fear of the consequences.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Completely with ya on "The Gift of Fear"-- such a great book! (Was thinking of it even as I wrote about Bancroft's.) And, for many people-- especially women/girls-- a lifesaver, too, I'm sure. (BTW, have you read de Becker's follow-up, "Protecting the Gift"? More geared towards parents, but even no-kids me still found it worthwhile.)

Yeah, what's happened to r/relationships really encapsulates the trans-colonization of all things female, sounds like. The scariest part, at least for me, is that they may well continue to recommend "The Gift of Fear", and champion a similarly pro-woman mindset... even while TWAW-ing those very same values into oblivion. Saw this play out over and over again on r/badwomensanatomy (before I got fed up and left for good): scathing disdain for male ignorance about women's bodies... INSTANTLY reversed the moment a "transwoman" appears, whereupon commentators are falling all over themselves to agree that OF COURSE women can have penises DUH! Makes me feel (in the immortal words of "Zoolander") like I'm taking crazy pills. Or maybe everyone ELSE of a lefty persuasion is.

And when I think about it... what you said as to the genderists demanding that we ignore our instincts? Distrust and disregard any feelings of discomfort, even outright fear? It reminds me of "drag kids" (ew), and drag queen story hour, and public "pup play", and "no kink-shaming!", and-- years ago-- "child sexual liberation" (to "have sex" with men)... all this ostensibly-"progressive" stuff that makes us queasy, but we're told to accept, because anything else is intolerant, close-minded, and prudish. You don't want to be like some ignorant bible-thumping homophobe, do you? DO YOU???

But I think that I can see what made liberals susceptible to the abuser mind-set. At least in part. It's that we always push people (including ourselves) to accept stuff that feels uncomfortable. Like women's equality, and black civil rights, and same-sex marriage. And then maybe we forgot that discomfort isn't the POINT, you know? That it isn't always to be pushed aside, "overcome". Sometimes it's to be heeded. Because sometimes, it's not prejudice and backwardness talking; sometimes... it's the gift of fear.

Somehow, we've gotta remind these trans-stanning progressives of this. And that, by pressuring people-- especially women and LGB kids-- to ignore when their Spidey-sense is tingling, they're not on the side of the angels; they're on the side of the abusers.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is all very insightful. I think you're dead on. This thought process is also part of what's made me starting thinking that the compromise of "trans women are trans women" and "trans men are trans men" is still too far. That it really needs to be "Trans women are men. And specifically men who for [insert categories of reasons] would like to present as if they were female." And same in the reverse for trans men/women because they should have no claim whatsoever to the issues uniquely faced by their appropriated sex. And allowing that to creep in distorts the issues and discussions of issues faced by those groups. How can gay, lesbian, and bisexual people exist in a space where they have to constantly defend and explain their sexual orientation that up until a few years ago, none of these people would have pretended to not understand. Women are wasting time explaining to people why we are more vulnerable than men in many respects that are inextricably tied to our biology. What is really happening is the tactic that Becker outlined called "forced teaming." Everything about gender activism is forced teaming. Forced teaming of women with trans women. Forced teaming of men with trans men. Forced teaming of LGB with TQ, which they then further dilute by bringing in a bunch of other letters. Forced teaming of gender activism with BLM/racial justice activism despite the weirdly racist shit that comes out of TRAs mouths on a daily basis while trying to coerce other people out of their sexual orientation.

I sincerely think that trans women are over-represented on reddit even more than we think and that some are RPGing as actual women, but I still worry about young liberal-minded women who see all of this startling inconsistency in r/badwomensanatomy and r/relationships and other places, notice the red flags, but ignore them and not peak. And even double down. It really is just scary cult stuff.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What is really happening is the tactic that Becker outlined called "forced teaming." Everything about gender activism is forced teaming. Forced teaming of women with trans women. Forced teaming of men with trans men. Forced teaming of LGB with TQ, which they then further dilute by bringing in a bunch of other letters. Forced teaming of gender activism with BLM/racial justice activism despite the weirdly racist shit that comes out of TRAs mouths on a daily basis while trying to coerce other people out of their sexual orientation.

"Forced teaming"-- you (and Mr. de Becker) are right on the money there: that's exactly what this is. (Also like the term "gender activists": more fitting than "TRAs", I think. Maybe we should call 'em "GEAs" [gender entitlement activists], "GA"s [genderism activists], and/or "GDA"s [gender dogma activists]? What do you think?)

And I'm not the only person who agrees with your assessment:

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

What can be done about this forced teaming, do you think? Could we adapt de Becker's counter-strategies? (Did he provide some? Don't have the book in front of me, I'm afraid.) Perhaps even in some organized, "official" way? Like, as a policy?

I'm also wondering whether we might be able to pull some forced teaming-jujitsu on them. If TWAW/TMAM, then WATW/MATM naturally follows, right? So we are automatically entitled to TRANS resources. In fact, I'd argue that we are more entitled to them, since there are far more of us, we've been consistently deprived of them, and ours is an identity still largely unacknowledged. Why, we're the trans-trans: DOUBLY-trans, thus doubly-oppressed! Our "gender identity" is a combination of NOT having one (lacking "genderfeelz"), yet nonetheless being shaped in innumerable ways by the gender-role imposed on us according to our observed biological sex; identifying with our gender-role in some ways but not others; identifying with the OPPOSITE gender-role in some ways but not others; and identifying with NEITHER gender-role in some ways. Meaning that we transcend gender... or "trans", for short. Which makes us... trans.

Cuz when it comes to mind-fuckery, ya goddamn genderwooists, TWO can play at THAT game :)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a horrible sort of "if you're not with us, you're against us" kind of intellectual or ideological blackmailing.

I'm really not sure what strategies would be effective to counter it; they've been very effective in digging their hooks in and parasitizing the LGB movement to their benefit.