DiscussionAnyone kind of afraid that they'll never have a positive outlook on the trans community?

submitted by Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. from self.LGBDropTheT

I don't even know where to begin with this.

I know I shouldn't be making generalisations, but all I have seen come from their community is pure narcissism, the fetishization of lesbians and gays, appropriation of terms not meant for them and repackaged conversion therapy.

I want to see these people as normal individuals and I want to view their community as a mentally sane group that can actually respect the boundaries of others and not constantly redefine the words that lesbian, gay and bisexual individuals have fought so hard for. But I just can't. I really can't.

If I ever meet another trans person, I'll have a hard time discussing anything with them without thinking: "oh this person most likely has a superiority complex, a personality disorder and believes that I should make everything about them! They also most likely think they are the most oppressed person in the world despite them belonging to one of the safest groups in human history!"

I'm just tired. So, so, tired.

EDIT: A lotta' people have interpreted this post meaning: "oh all trans people suck and don't deserve humane treatment."

No, of course they do, they are still human and deserve the same treatment that everybody else gets.

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[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 48 insightful - 2 fun48 insightful - 1 fun49 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

I'm not afraid that I see them that way.

I tried to be "open minded." I tried giving them a chance, hell, I even still do. To this day I come across trans people in my hobby groups online (and rarely, IRL) and I NEVER initiate hostility towards them, but nine times out of ten they pretty much always cause problems

I believe the very concept of transgenderism is highly selfish and narcissistic. It is basically the concept of lying about your identity (sex, name, sometimes some of them go further and lie about their nationality, past, or other life details) and usually being very open with the fact that is a fabrication, but expecting people to conform to it and change their lives to convenience you. Demanding what words they can and can't use for you, demanding that they see you a certain way, that you need to consider them as dates or sexual partners, that you need to support them financially.

No other group does this on such a large scale. I look androgynous in real life, it's not uncommon for me to be mistakenly be referred to as female, but I don't believe I have the right to rudely demand that people stop doing it or else they're committing hate crimes against me. Mostly because it really doesn't matter. I can't control how others see me, I can't control how they refer to me, and that's coming from someone who has a very fragile self esteem and is constantly paranoid that everyone is laughing at me.

No one but those who are incredibly narcissistic have the entitlement to pull that off, let alone attempt to flip it to make it seem like people who don't comply are evil and worthless. It's no wonder that most of them are toxic people. The ones that aren't tend to be those who are misguided, coerced into transitioning for one reason or another, and tend to be less grounded in their beliefs (as in, they believe it with less sincerity and usually end up detransitioning)

People keep telling me I can't judge a community based on "a few bad apples. " But it's not a few. When ninety-five percent of your apple orchard is rotting and festering, I think it's time that you reconsidered running an apple farm. Even if you occasionally find one or two unspoiled does not mean you don't have some kind of mass blight infecting all your crops.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 40 insightful - 10 fun40 insightful - 9 fun41 insightful - 10 fun -  (4 children)

To this day I come across trans people in my hobby groups online (and rarely, IRL) and I NEVER initiate hostility towards them, but nine times out of ten they pretty much always cause problems

This is so fucking true it hurts. I'm involved in a hobby that tends to draw genderspecials, (tabletop RPGs) and 90% of the time when a group has drama it's because a begendered person wasn't getting enough attention. Either that, or someone else in the group got tired of their shit. Trying to bring wokeness into character creation "okay so what's everyone's character's sexual orientation, gender, and pronouns? UwU" or their character continuously hitting on other player characters of the same gender so the genderling can roleplay their kawaii yaoi/yuri fantasy. If you thought you've ever seen something cringeworthy, it pales in comparison to neckbeards speaking in falsetto voices trying to roleplay as UwU smol twans anime catgirl lesbians UwU.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 24 insightful - 16 fun24 insightful - 15 fun25 insightful - 16 fun -  (0 children)

it pales in comparison to neckbeards speaking in falsetto voices trying to roleplay as UwU smol twans anime catgirl lesbians UwU.

I live such a sheltered life to never have witnessed these things

[–]Dravidian 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It makes me wonder about the dudes I did tabletop RPG with te years ago. I really wonder if some of them are trans now. Especially two or three who always only played girl characters in falsettos and were weird neckbeard types. Not crazy ones, generally amicable and nice (and I'm a girl, so), but still... Anime and Jrpgs obsessed, unhappy in love and just weird.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

begendered person, genderling

I'm so glad I put my tea down because I fucking cackled

[–]Kai_Decadence 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it pales in comparison to neckbeards speaking in falsetto voices trying to roleplay as UwU smol twans anime catgirl lesbians UwU.

AHHHH I can already hear that voice now Lmao I remember clicking on a video recently to watch on YouTube and the first thing I heard was that oh so familiar voice. The person linked to their twitter in the description and I clicked it to give it a look and sure enough, it was definitely one of these types. It's funny how they don't understand how that voice is not "feminine", it's actually cartoonish and annoying, especially since you know it's not their real voice.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah, and I'd go even further: this is an ideology that breeds abusers-- attracting, and indeed creating, them. Meaning people who treat others abusively. And I'm not speaking metaphorically here, either: the behavior responsible for so many "peak trans" stories seems nothing short of textbook. Literally, even: it's all straight out of Lundy Bancroft's classic, "Why Does He Do That?" (pretty much the bible on abusive men). Entitlement, selfishness, self-pity (world's biggest victim = can't be victimizing anyone else!), irrationality as a tool of domination, getting others to side with them, etc... it's all there. As is what it adds up to: being controlling, and an insistence on freedom from accountability. The twin pillars of the abuser's mindset. And doesn't trans behavior towards those with whom they're most obsessed-- LGB people and women-- practically scream, "stalker"? Want us, hate us, hellbent on controlling us... and just can't leave us alone?

People keep telling me I can't judge a community based on "a few bad apples. " But it's not a few. When ninety-five percent of your apple orchard is rotting and festering, I think it's time that you reconsidered running an apple farm. Even if you occasionally find one or two unspoiled does not mean you don't have some kind of mass blight infecting all your crops.

Of course you're right in pointing out that it isn't "just a few bad apples" at all-- quite the contrary; bad-apple-dom is more the rule than the exception here-- but the thing is: when people use this phrase to dismiss bad behavior? By indicating that it's limited to "just a few", and therefore, compared to the majority of "apples", doesn't even count?

They always conveniently forget that the entire adage is: "a few bad apples SPOIL THE WHOLE BARREL".

So if it ever WAS "only a few" bad trans-apples? Looks like the barrel-rot has well and and truly set in now.

Why don't those self-proclaimed "good" trans-apples get to work salvaging their contaminated barrel, rather than just continuing to attack anyone who dares complain about the stink?

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I’m glad you mentioned “Why Does He Do That?” Another relevant book is “The Gift of Fear.” I’ve been thinking about how these two books used to be recommended all the time in r/relationships. Idk if they still are, but if they are, it’s very ironic because they are fervently pro-trans there. It used to be that they prioritized women but now it’s trans people they prioritize.

Anyway, everything that TRAs push on us is directly contradictory to The Gift Of Fear, which teaches us to trust and not ignore our instincts when it comes to signs of danger, red flags, and something being very off. Now we are told that if we listen to our accurate instincts, we are bigots.

I’m scared for young people growing up in this but especially for young girls and gay kids. They are going to suffer the most because they are going to be the biggest victims of this ideology and they won’t be able to talk about their experiences out of fear of the consequences.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Completely with ya on "The Gift of Fear"-- such a great book! (Was thinking of it even as I wrote about Bancroft's.) And, for many people-- especially women/girls-- a lifesaver, too, I'm sure. (BTW, have you read de Becker's follow-up, "Protecting the Gift"? More geared towards parents, but even no-kids me still found it worthwhile.)

Yeah, what's happened to r/relationships really encapsulates the trans-colonization of all things female, sounds like. The scariest part, at least for me, is that they may well continue to recommend "The Gift of Fear", and champion a similarly pro-woman mindset... even while TWAW-ing those very same values into oblivion. Saw this play out over and over again on r/badwomensanatomy (before I got fed up and left for good): scathing disdain for male ignorance about women's bodies... INSTANTLY reversed the moment a "transwoman" appears, whereupon commentators are falling all over themselves to agree that OF COURSE women can have penises DUH! Makes me feel (in the immortal words of "Zoolander") like I'm taking crazy pills. Or maybe everyone ELSE of a lefty persuasion is.

And when I think about it... what you said as to the genderists demanding that we ignore our instincts? Distrust and disregard any feelings of discomfort, even outright fear? It reminds me of "drag kids" (ew), and drag queen story hour, and public "pup play", and "no kink-shaming!", and-- years ago-- "child sexual liberation" (to "have sex" with men)... all this ostensibly-"progressive" stuff that makes us queasy, but we're told to accept, because anything else is intolerant, close-minded, and prudish. You don't want to be like some ignorant bible-thumping homophobe, do you? DO YOU???

But I think that I can see what made liberals susceptible to the abuser mind-set. At least in part. It's that we always push people (including ourselves) to accept stuff that feels uncomfortable. Like women's equality, and black civil rights, and same-sex marriage. And then maybe we forgot that discomfort isn't the POINT, you know? That it isn't always to be pushed aside, "overcome". Sometimes it's to be heeded. Because sometimes, it's not prejudice and backwardness talking; sometimes... it's the gift of fear.

Somehow, we've gotta remind these trans-stanning progressives of this. And that, by pressuring people-- especially women and LGB kids-- to ignore when their Spidey-sense is tingling, they're not on the side of the angels; they're on the side of the abusers.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is all very insightful. I think you're dead on. This thought process is also part of what's made me starting thinking that the compromise of "trans women are trans women" and "trans men are trans men" is still too far. That it really needs to be "Trans women are men. And specifically men who for [insert categories of reasons] would like to present as if they were female." And same in the reverse for trans men/women because they should have no claim whatsoever to the issues uniquely faced by their appropriated sex. And allowing that to creep in distorts the issues and discussions of issues faced by those groups. How can gay, lesbian, and bisexual people exist in a space where they have to constantly defend and explain their sexual orientation that up until a few years ago, none of these people would have pretended to not understand. Women are wasting time explaining to people why we are more vulnerable than men in many respects that are inextricably tied to our biology. What is really happening is the tactic that Becker outlined called "forced teaming." Everything about gender activism is forced teaming. Forced teaming of women with trans women. Forced teaming of men with trans men. Forced teaming of LGB with TQ, which they then further dilute by bringing in a bunch of other letters. Forced teaming of gender activism with BLM/racial justice activism despite the weirdly racist shit that comes out of TRAs mouths on a daily basis while trying to coerce other people out of their sexual orientation.

I sincerely think that trans women are over-represented on reddit even more than we think and that some are RPGing as actual women, but I still worry about young liberal-minded women who see all of this startling inconsistency in r/badwomensanatomy and r/relationships and other places, notice the red flags, but ignore them and not peak. And even double down. It really is just scary cult stuff.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What is really happening is the tactic that Becker outlined called "forced teaming." Everything about gender activism is forced teaming. Forced teaming of women with trans women. Forced teaming of men with trans men. Forced teaming of LGB with TQ, which they then further dilute by bringing in a bunch of other letters. Forced teaming of gender activism with BLM/racial justice activism despite the weirdly racist shit that comes out of TRAs mouths on a daily basis while trying to coerce other people out of their sexual orientation.

"Forced teaming"-- you (and Mr. de Becker) are right on the money there: that's exactly what this is. (Also like the term "gender activists": more fitting than "TRAs", I think. Maybe we should call 'em "GEAs" [gender entitlement activists], "GA"s [genderism activists], and/or "GDA"s [gender dogma activists]? What do you think?)

And I'm not the only person who agrees with your assessment:

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

What can be done about this forced teaming, do you think? Could we adapt de Becker's counter-strategies? (Did he provide some? Don't have the book in front of me, I'm afraid.) Perhaps even in some organized, "official" way? Like, as a policy?

I'm also wondering whether we might be able to pull some forced teaming-jujitsu on them. If TWAW/TMAM, then WATW/MATM naturally follows, right? So we are automatically entitled to TRANS resources. In fact, I'd argue that we are more entitled to them, since there are far more of us, we've been consistently deprived of them, and ours is an identity still largely unacknowledged. Why, we're the trans-trans: DOUBLY-trans, thus doubly-oppressed! Our "gender identity" is a combination of NOT having one (lacking "genderfeelz"), yet nonetheless being shaped in innumerable ways by the gender-role imposed on us according to our observed biological sex; identifying with our gender-role in some ways but not others; identifying with the OPPOSITE gender-role in some ways but not others; and identifying with NEITHER gender-role in some ways. Meaning that we transcend gender... or "trans", for short. Which makes us... trans.

Cuz when it comes to mind-fuckery, ya goddamn genderwooists, TWO can play at THAT game :)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a horrible sort of "if you're not with us, you're against us" kind of intellectual or ideological blackmailing.

I'm really not sure what strategies would be effective to counter it; they've been very effective in digging their hooks in and parasitizing the LGB movement to their benefit.

[–]Kai_Decadence 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The ones that aren't tend to be those who are misguided, coerced into transitioning for one reason or another, and tend to be less grounded in their beliefs (as in, they believe it with less sincerity and usually end up detransitioning)

This one is especially true. I've come across a few people who were calling themselves "Trans" get upset with me on certain videos on YouTube following gender critical people and whenever I would challenge their beliefs and stump them, they usually would back off and in 2 instances, stopped calling themselves trans even. I think that the pleasant ones are usually exactly what you said, younger, naive people who were coerced by older trans-identified people (usually men calling themselves "Transwomen") into the ideology.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 33 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Omg, this could be written by me. I kind of miss the old days where I was ignorant and thought trans people were naive and just wanted to live their lives. I have the same "problem" as you now. Honestly, I don't think there's a solution. I'm also very wary not only of trans people but of ANY lgb(tq+) person. I look for "red flags" and try to see if they're "woke" or attention seeker or have some kind of mental health issues. This is also true for trans people. For my own safety as a lesbian, I make sure I don't have any contact with any trans woman. I only met one in a lgb(tq+) meeting and he was a total bloke and became easily obsessed with me. Ew. So now I make sure I don't tell my sexuality to a trans person and it will also depend on the lgb person. If I see it's someone reasonable, then we can totally be friends. But if I see a clear "I'M SO GAY" 24/7 behavior from that person, I'm better off not being friends with that person. I just want to meet regular non attention seeking homo or bisexual people. But as we tend to be more discreet (because guess what, we have more personality than being gay), it's harder to find ourselves. It wouldn't be so hard if now the TQ+ wouldn't have taken over everything 😩 Anyway, sorry, I really don't have any advice. Just to let you know that I know exactly how you feel. Hugs!

[–]8bitgay 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But as we tend to be more discreet (because guess what, we have more personality than being gay), it's harder to find ourselves.

This is one of the saddest things about how the TQ+ narrative spread. We are already a minority, but now even the few spaces where we could find each other are mostly taken.

Gosh, do you remember when you could go to LGB spaces and see people just talking about casual stuff? And people sharing their experiences of homophobia and giving each other support too. Now it's hard to spend a week in a LGB space without someone bringing up trans issues...

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Same! Modern "queer" culture has made me very cautious around other LGB people. If I'm being honest, I tend to avoid contact with them if I can. I try to keep an open mind, but I'm so, so fucking tired of being lectured at over stupid shit that would bother no reasonable person because it's a "microaggression" or somehow otherwise problematic. I especially avoid other women who call themselves lesbians because they're usually the most preachy, and if they hear that I'm gay they take it as an invitation to tell me how they're sooooooo gay (usually because they don't follow gender stereotypes) or how omg men are trash (except for their boyfriend, he's the exception.) Bonus points if they lecture me for being close minded for not trying dick, or call me a liar when I say I've never been attracted to a guy. Most of them go on to either a "bi lesbian" or "non-binary lesbian" phase, but only after screeching on social media for a month or so about how these things are both totally uwu valid.

[–]our_team_is_winning 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(except for their boyfriend, he's the exception.)

Lesbians with boyfriends = not lesbians

If you're 14, genderspecial might be a "look at me, I'm edgy" phase, the way "Satanism" used to be; but if you're an adult, this is mental illness. Does the OP really mean "I'm afraid I won't have a positive outlook toward mental illness"? Because you shouldn't have. They need professional help. And TW endanger women at the same rate regular men endanger women, and that's sadly quite high.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty all the "my boyfriend is the exception" types ive met are actually dating the very type of man they say they are against and shun decent men. The disconnect is strong with them.

[–]CleverNickName 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Well... there shouldn't be trans people. No, I'm not literally Hitler and want the people who are trans gone, the phenomenon shouldn't be a thing. Gender dysphoria can and should be treated by helping people accept who and what they are, and what they are is male from beginning to the end, or female from beginning to end. People cannot ever switch, change, "transition", and there is no "in-between".

Of course, I described sex, not gender, but gender is even more fictional - and even more harmful. At least sex dysphoria is real, and I want the absolute best possible care in the world for anyone suffering from it. Transitioning just isn't it. Not even close.
Gender does nothing but hold people back. Stereotypes, the colonization of LGB issues and spaces, the brainwashing of children and parents into chemically and surgically altering perfectly healthy boys and girls into - I'm sorry - freaks who have no other choice but to flee into insane hugboxes like egg_irl and r/lgbt

I suppose I do have a positive outlook on the trans community, in that my outlook is "in a hundred years, we'll see transitioning the same way we now view 'hysteria' and lobotomies"; the pessimist in me is just afraid that it'll take a lot longer than that, and how many innocent youths it'll kill on the way there.

[–]BonesRedsMy pronouns are Yu/Gi/Oh! 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fucking hell, man. You hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to find exact words for how I feel about all of this and you did it.

[–]FediNetizenSuper-semi-bisexual (i.e. straight) 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

No, I'm not literally Hitler and want the people who are trans gone, the phenomenon shouldn't be a thing

This is gonna make me sound like a grammar nazi, but this sentence would have been way easier to parse if that last comma had been a semicolon instead.

[–]pacmanla 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bravo!!! Well said

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well... there shouldn't be trans people. No, I'm not literally Hitler and want the people who are trans gone, the phenomenon shouldn't be a thing. Gender dysphoria can and should be treated by helping people accept who and what they are, and what they are is male from beginning to the end, or female from beginning to end. People cannot ever switch, change, "transition", and there is no "in-between".

Cue the trans activists screaming about how you're literally committing genocide. It's unfortunate that the suggestion that we should instead focus on teaching people to feel comfortable in their own bodies and not feel obligated to conform to stereotypical gender roles is seen as a wildly subversive statement by them. Apparently irreversible surgical intervention in the pursuit of the unattainable is still better to them.

Their shutting down of nuanced, thoughtful discussion and their slandering of experts in the field as "gatekeepers" are fearfully effective displays of anti-intellectualism. It's striking how similar it is to how my hero, Joycelyn Elders, was run out of her position as the Surgeon General of the United States for simply saying the truth about a variety of issues related to drugs, abortion, sex education, and despite the fact that she was objectively on the right side of history in regards to them she was kicked out of her position for not sufficiently self-censoring as a way of pandering to conservatives. Just look at her responses throughout this interview:

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/30/magazine/joycelyn-elders.html

In December, Elders remarked that drug legalization was worth studying -- an opinion that the White House immediately distanced itself from, but one that Elders reiterated in January. "Bill Clinton didn't pick me to be a rubber stamp for him," she says in her soft Southern voice. "If that was all he wanted, he would have left me in Arkansas."

And of course, Bill Clinton, in a complete bastard move, kicked her out after her mundane, sensible comments about masturbation (""I think that [masturbation] is part of human sexuality, and perhaps it should be taught") were seen as deeply controversial. It's nonsense.

The same thing is happening in the trans activism movement in the sense that they're demonizing sensible messaging and expert opinion by attempting to portray it as wildly controversial and subversive (literal genocide, literal violence, etc).

We are all in her position, trying desperately to sound the alarm bells even if it comes at personal cost, because to not do so is unthinkable. None of us should have to worry about losing our jobs or being turned into a societal pariah for standing up against homophobia, yet here we are... :/

[–]Lesbianese⚢ 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Not afraid of it personally, although I used to be. The way I've made my peace with it is realizing regardless of my stance on transness, I still see their humanity, even if it doesn't exactly paint them in a pleasant light, and recognize they deserve humane treatment like the rest of us but no more than that. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

This group needs to be reprimanded for endorsing unhealthy coping mechanisms at best and need locked up for harming women and raping homosexuals via deception or coerced conversion therapy at worst. It's not unreasonable to feel repulsed by this aspect of their identity.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I just watch blair or rose of dawn then remember they all aren't out to destroy

[–]zerosis 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Rose of Dawn is so great, along with Buck Angel and a few others I've seen.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd be a hypocrite if I saw them ALL in a bad light, because I detransitioned.

I've mentioned this in a couple of posts but, I grew up in a religious, conservative abusive household and yada yada where being gay was considered "disgusting". I thought I was a lesbian for the longest time because I only had same-sex attraction and admired the opposite sex and wanted to BE THEM not with them... Also, because people would ask me all the time if I'm gay because I'm a "tomboy"(not exactly a fan of term but i digress).

Anyways...I wanted to be considered "normal"(aka straight...) So I thought transitioning would help. Plus, you know, as teens, they typically don't have good self esteem etc etc about appearances. I had extreme body dysforia. I hated that I was developing into female that I wish I could just ripp through my skin...or be "reborn" a male....

I hated how girls/women were told "no, you can't do that" based on biology for most inane silly things(ex. I am expected to stay inside, clean, cook, etc while my brothers sat around playing videogames). My mother didn't like when I did "boy" things like...playing certain sports. It was stupid. I was sexist against my own sex and thought I needed to change to fit whatever society deemed as OK.

I just wanted my parents acceptance but lol transitioning didn't help, it just made it worse, because of course, my parents think that makes me gay(er). I was threatened to get thrown out of house for cutting hair short and almost got a beating for it too....

But people who didn't know me would mistaken me as a boy. I never did surgery or hormones. I think to those people, I just looked like a prepubescent boy or feminine boy, I don't know. I used to like that, to be one of the boys, to be "accepted" as normal. I kid you not...when I look feminine, I was treated differently than when I looked masculine...more respected for my "masculine" hobbies as man...

I still get called "sir" on phones for my "low" voice, so I purposely raise sound pitch of voice at work to sound "customer friendly" but I'm starting to hate it.

So with that much long-winded ramble, I would say just judge on individual basis. Currently, I have a MtF boss who is just TERRIBLE and gets away with whatever he wants. I have posts in different sub about him. I also have a cousin who is MtF who used to bully me when we were younger.

But...I know not ALL of them are rude/snooty. They might have similar situation like myself. So I just want them to know it OK to be you. You don't need to change for other people...

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im sick and tired of the lies.

Whenever I debate/decus TRA's its always an excuse "those are incels" "trans people with common sense don't do this" "don't judge the group by the bad apples"

I never see TRA's call out that behaviour tho

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]Lizzythelezzo 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly it's okay to admit the reality to yourself - I have found the same thing, that most trans people have Cluster B personality disorders and are highly dissociative people. I mean you'd have to dissociate pretty damn hard to really believe that you're in the wrong body and your actual gender is different to the one you were born with. I do feel compassion for people who are so mentally ill, but it doesn't excuse toxic or abusive behaviour.

I was a TRA for a number of years and I still have a number of trans people and TRAs as friends, but I am cautious about getting too close to them as I find personality disordered people can burn you when you get too close. Some of them are fine as acquaintances or casual friends though. I tend not to be very open about my beliefs for various reasons, except with friends who I know are also GC.

[–]AppleTapple 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Honestly, being trans myself, I'm really concerned that this is an actual problem. The genuine trans community isn't like this. I hope LGB drop the T can see our frustration with this because real trans people don't think this way and have never had this problem before until these recent years. Being trans isn't a fetish, it's an identity. I can't imagine forcing anyone to do anything with me if they didn't want to. Trans people want to blend in, not stand out. What do you mean by "appropriation of terms?"

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you call out TRA's and other Trans people for trying to force natal people into sleeping with trans people?

[–]AppleTapple 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, but I don't really see it anywhere. People who act like that aren't going to listen to anyone, even if said person was trans. I'd get called transphobic and truscum and shut out of anything before I even had the chance to say sh*t. If I had more of a platform, I would definitely try to do something about it.

[–]artetolife 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think all of us who were around before the crazy new wave of gender woo woo know that there are perfecty reasonable trans people and think it's terrible that they're being caught in the backlash against unscrupulous TRAs.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me it started going off the rails when they convinced doctors that the term "Gender Identity Disorder" was "transphobic" . People were way more realistic before that.

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For appropriation, I can think of many. Of course some people will argue that transgender itself is appropriating the opposite sex (this is especially sensitive for women b/c sexism exists).

The phrase "assigned sex at birth" is appropriated from the intersex community. Transactivists also use intersex people constantly in their arguments even though intersex orgs have pleaded to be left out of these debates because they're really completely separate issues.

Transbians just hit wrong. I feel like unless you're Blaire White, a trans woman is usually pretty clockable, even the ones who claim to be "stealth", and many of them are just blatantly male (like Yaniv or Stefonknee etc). It's hard to not see them as heterosexual men.

I've also seen trans people use the term "femme", which originated as a term lesbians use (butch vs femme). Honestly lesbians don't even really like the terms much but to use them out of context is still appropriation and weird. A lot of "trans femmes" when they mean "trans women" (or if they're mirroring transmasc, then it should be transfem). The other day I saw someone use "assigned femmes" meaning "AFABs". It was an appropriation within an appropriation. Bleah.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really feel this. Obviously they deserve respect, human rights, decent treatment, etc but what gets me is that transgenderism as a concept is very difficult to separate from narcissism. There are some trans people I don't mind listening to like Debbie Hayton or Buck Angel, but I have to listen to them from a distance. Knowing them personally would be like being friends with someone I know is anorexic and is slowly killing themselves. They may know they're sick, they know what they're doing is harmful and self destructive, but they have no intention of stopping because starvation is the only way they feel comfortable enough to exist in the world. That's not something I can look at in a positive light.

The same applies to people with such severe dysphoria that transitioning is their "only" option. Even if they acknowledge their birth sex, they know they will never be the opposite sex and they know transitioning is a means to feel comfortable in their bodies, I personally can't look at someone like that in a good light. That kind of negative outlook on life where you have to undergo extensive, elective surgery and hormone treatment just to be able to get up every morning is toxic to me.

And those are the "good" trans people. The ones we discuss here are self centered, only talk about trans stuff, seek out conflict to feed on, are emotional leeches, are homophobic and sexist as hell, force others to walk on eggshells all the time, throw slurs at anyone who even slightly disagrees with them. Those trans people can choke on rusty nails.

[–]blahblahgcer 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was in the trans community for the year and now I don't have good opinions of them. I trust the trans people who are hated by the trans community (like Blaire white) way more than people who are accepted by it.

[–]JulienMayfair 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just checked in on my formerly gay male group that has been taken over by the TQ+. Today, it was a total shitshow.

I'm not being figurative here when I say that it has devolved into a bunch of people trying to get sympathy for themselves based on their long confessionals about all the mental illnesses they suffer from. And one disturbing and potentially revealing part is that they seem to be in competition with one another about who has suffered the most sexual abuse. They are obsessed with it to the point where I find myself thinking rather unavoidably that their claimed gender identities and their histories of trauma and abuse are linked.

But rather than focusing on recovery, they're just wallowing in it and flinging their metaphorical feces all over the wall. They are traumatized individuals acting out their trauma.

[–]l9210889 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Personally I don't see them all that way, just the vast majority. IMHO truscum trans are not like the ones you mention and shouldn't be put in the same bag.

[–]MyLongestJourney 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What community?(And no I do not accept the idea,that there is such thing as a LGB community).

But I digress.I am able to tell the difference between decent people who actually suffer from GID and the mob of fetishists,sex predators and clueless woke activists (the majority of whom are heterosexual,non GID sufferers) plus the professional "activists" who are in it for the money we label TRAs.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well since gender dysphoria is a mental disorder I don't think "viewing them as a sane group," is the wise. You are setting yourself up for a lot of dissapointment. That doesnt mean they dont deserve compassion for their illness.

[–]zerosis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly yeah, I have a bit of a hard time with this. I don't want to dismiss a group of people outright as a bunch of delusional assholes, I know not all of them are like that. But I've seen too many things, I've experienced too many things, and I can't trust that the TRA movement has anyone's best interest at heart anymore. I have an outright visceral reaction to anything TRA related now. There's SO goddamn much homophobia that comes from them, and it gets eaten up by LGB's because they don't want to appear 'un-woke.' There's a part of me that's really fucking sad that I used to be so supportive of the trans community, and now I just can't be anymore. It's like a veil has been lifted. I also feel really awful for people with gender dysphoria who are just trying to survive, stuck between insane TRA activists and the isolation their condition must make them feel. This whole thing just sucks for everyone.

[–]Some-unoriginal-guy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never did, at best I just put up a facade just to not receive hate and not bother anyone

[–]QueenBread 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I reccommend following the tweets of people like, for example, Debbie Hayton: a transwoman who is vocally supporting Rowling and calling out the TRAs nutcases. Check the account: https://twitter.com/debbiehayton ....But there are far more out there.

Don't lump all people in the same category. I found various transwomen on Twitter being just horrified and disgusted at the "trans lobby" movement.

I think most "trans lobbyists" aren't even trans. They're straight men wearing lipstick and makeup to predate on women.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can't see what's not there.