BisexualHelping out bi coworker

submitted by julesburm1891 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I guess it's true, 30 is the new 20....

I hate that some people treat increasingly older adults-- 18, 20s, now 30s?-- as kids (I know that you aren't! just observing generally). I had to become fully independent at age 20 and I was amazed at how many people I knew in college believed they were literally incapable of performing "adult" tasks like setting up gas services or doing your own taxes-- let alone being emotionally independent. If people need help learning to do these things, that's totally okay! But to say that someone is still "just a kid" at age 20, 25, 30, is completely inaccurate.

It's so crazy to me that someone could, in their 30s, be so swayed by the lemon bars thing. Like, whoa. How much of a sense of self does that guy have...? I don't want to sound critical, but I just can't wrap my mind around it.

/rant lol

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I really don't know what's happening, I think especially because of this shit economy and because the cost of living is so high and because of school debt and credit card debt and other kinds of debt, many American 20-30+ year olds can't leave home and start their lives, and it really sucks for them. They are living in a twilight world where they are half-child/half-adult. But I read stories on /r/amitheasshole and there are stories about adults who can't wash their own dishes or clean their own mess, and it boggles my mind. Like grown men who are husbands who complain about their wives wanting them to help with the baby, but "AITA for wanting to play my video games instead?" Like... What??? Is it that they are so crippled by depression/trauma that they'd rather fight for 2 hours and make everyone else in the apartment miserable than to spend 10 minutes cleaning up after themselves and be an adult, I don't get it?

I don't even know what my point is, LOL I'm just so flabbergasted by how immature and unripe these latest batches of adults are. (This is not meant to insult anybody here, I'm just generalizing based on a few bad apples. Of course there are tons of mature Millenials/Gen-Z out there too!)

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

(redacted)

I don't even know what my point is, LOL

Lmao I don't know what mine was either haha, but I really appreciate talking about this. I don't talk about it with people IRL much because I don't want to sound like "I'm not like the other girls!1!1"-- which is not only dumb but a cop-out conclusion.

But I don't understand why this is happening. Sex-based discrimination is certainly part of the answer but I think there's a lot else to it, as well.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yeah, generational trauma has a lot to do with it, I think.

Have you heard of the 4F's? (Fight, flight, freeze, fawn.) There's a guy named Pete Walker who wrote a book about Complex PTSD that has some in-depth info on this stuff (for example, I'm mostly freeze, but when it passes a certain level of threatening, I go into a beast mode version of fight.) You sound like you might be a mix of flight+fight.

Even if it ends up not applying to you, it will apply to so many people around you that it's still a valuable resource:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/20556323

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Checking in to say I have diagnosed complex PTSD and mine is definitely a result of intergenerational trauma. Looks like I’m going to end it by not procreating. . . .

In me it caused a lot of dissociative behavior that I never realized was happening but it really fucked me up with understanding my sexual orientation as I was in such a fog and so disconnected from my body.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Looks like I’m going to end it by not procreating. . . .

Me too. A relative tried to nag at me about it, and I was basically like "The abuse ends with me." I'm not bringing in a kid into this world. Not happening.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think the other thing is that we who have family-induced CPTSD often have to raise ourselves and our siblings so we don’t have the urge to raise more humans when we have firsthand experience with how horribly wrong it can go. I like kids but I’d rather dote on other people’s and work on making this world a better place for them.

The other thing I find embarrassing is that yes, I have childhood trauma and no, it’s not sexual and not from a man, but that people will be like “well of course she ended up gay because of it.” Throughout my life I just craved normalcy, independence, and stability and the ability to create my own life so I was very in denial about being gay because I saw it as a threat to this. I am still guarded about who knows, and still don’t share it widely. I deal with internalized homophobia as a result of it. The queer-jacking has made everything SO MUCH WORSE because it went from being “you can be gay and a normal, productive member of society” and live whatever life you wanna live with most options not closed off and now it’s “look at me and how oppressed and intersectionally vulnerable I am and everyone must center me.” Plus the codification of the desires of those with cluster B personality disorders into law has been, dare I say it, triggering. It’s been really bad for my mental health honestly. Definitely encourages my dissociative tendencies.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

(there was something else here but I deleted it.)

Queer-jacking is such a perfect word for what they're doing. It's like it wasn't enough that our childhoods were devoured by cluster B relatives, even as adults, we can't get away from these people, and society is happy to look the other way so long as the boat isn't being rocked.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to let you know that I read your post and typed up a long heartfelt response and then when trying to move it to a private message I inadvertently deleted the whole thing. I will send you a pm when I have it in me to type up again, but for now I’ll say that I’m SO sorry that happened to you. Hugs to you. I’m not surprised that people like you and me with shithead parents end up in places like this where a lot of the concern is the impact on children due to clinically self-centered adults projecting their bullshit onto vulnerable and impressionable kids. And now these kids are being taught not to listen to their instincts that tell them something is off about a person, to push away and feel shame about their very rational fears and their own personal boundaries. They might as well burn The Gift of Fear. It’s vomit-inducing.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, I didn't see the first part of response, but just wanted to say I hope you're doing okay and I wish you the best. I also have cluster B close relatives, and I know it's a sickening, frightening rollcoaster that I still feel stuck in in my mind.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Jesus, are you me? Every part of that is true for me as well, lol.

You know-- do you think maybe, part of why some lesbians can't wrap their head around the idea of late bloomers / being in a relationship with a man for years without realizing you're lesbian, because they don't understand the extent of the damage from complex trauma? They say, "How could you not know you were gay?", but dude, I didn't even know what my favorite fucking color was til like last year, that's how much my abusers tried to stamp out my individuality.

Perhaps this is a conversation better continued over message or another post, haha. I don't want to derail too hard.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You know-- do you think maybe, part of why some lesbians can't wrap their head around the idea of late bloomers / being in a relationship with a man for years without realizing you're lesbian, because they don't understand the extent of the damage from complex trauma? They say, "How could you not know you were gay?", but dude, I didn't even know what my favorite fucking color was til like last year, that's how much my abusers tried to stamp out my individuality.

On the one hand I get it because like how can you realize that you’re attracted to one sex and not the other when attraction is such a full-body experience? And there are a lot of lesbiantrenders out there and if I went on a date with someone and got those vibes, I’d be totally put off/kinda freaked out. But I do think it comes down to, as you said, people not understanding (1) all of the various circumstances, factors, trauma, disruption to life, etc. that make it difficult to process our feelings generally separate and apart from accepting ourselves as gay. These factors go beyond just societal attitudes toward homosexuality. And (2) that we as late bloomers are not new to our feelings of same-sex attraction. We are new to recognizing the full extent of the pattern, letting ourselves feel those feelings, putting a name to them, and internalizing them or to being in a position where we can finally accept those feelings even if we recognized them before.

Trauma makes it hard for you to put your feelings in context. I had a poor sense of self, and I was always being gaslit, and so I gaslit myself, and treated myself poorly generally. I also knew early on that I would have to make trade-offs in my life. I’ve never believed that I could “have it all.” I don’t really fit the profile of a lesbiantrender since I’m not shouting it from the rooftops, and outside of my one relationship with a man, I’ve been on two, maybe four dates, if you count the double dates where I went because it was my female friend who I actually liked who kept trying to set me up with guys lol. The one I wrote my embarrassingly gay letter to. The two solo dates I didn’t even want to go on but I told myself I should want to go on them and that therefore I should just do it because there was something wrong with me for not wanting to. And I never went in on more than one date. My only relationship with a guy was born out of us being close friends hanging out all the time for months. We actually never really “dated.” I have nothing to gain by making this up, but I do have a lot to lose, and I have.

Perhaps this is a conversation better continued over message or another post, haha. I don't want to derail too hard.

Yes, anytime!

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On the one hand I get it because like how can you realize that you’re attracted to one sex and not the other when attraction is such a full-body experience? 

Actually, this is EXACTLY the point! I think trauma survivors are often so out-of-tune with their own bodies-- a protective mechanism to lesson pain associated with abuse-- that they wouldn't even notice a bunch of other bodily sensations, be it attraction sensations or even simply the sensation of hunger.

And (2) that we as late bloomers are not new to our feelings of same-sex attraction. We are new to recognizing the full extent of the pattern, letting ourselves feel those feelings, putting a name to them, and internalizing them or to being in a position where we can finally accept those feelings even if we recognized them before.

EXACTLY. This is a really important point to verbalize, and actually, one that I thought was so obvious that I didn't think it needed verbalizing-- but now you mention it, I realize some people may have totally missed it.

You mention acceptance vs. recognition of feelings. That is also an important distinction to make. I actually did have very brief moments of recognition, at least 3-4 times throughout my growing up (once even when I was like 8), but I was very fast at burying/avoiding those thoughts til I forgot them.

I had a poor sense of self, and I was always being gaslit, and so I gaslit myself, and treated myself poorly generally. I also knew early on that I would have to make trade-offs in my life. I’ve never believed that I could “have it all.” 

Dude, I struggle with this SO much. I recently got what is basically a dream job for me, and am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that I can actually have that + my hobbies + actual friends who care about me + a bunch of other shit.. it's overwhelming in a way, to be honest. Good problems to have, though.

if you count the double dates where I went because it was my female friend who I actually liked who kept trying to set me up with guys lol.

Oh man, RIP haha.

I'll message you! :)

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi! I didn’t realize this was you commenting so I’m not surprised but I was thinking that I relate to all of this. I am the independent one out of my siblings. They all have arrested development in various forms.

I do have some childlike qualities too but I’m driven and high-functioning so thankfully some people consider those qualities endearing because of the juxtaposition.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel so infantalised because I am living at home due to losing my job due to covid. Housing is so expensive and I feel like I'm still a teenager at 24 (not literally... you know what I mean). Financially it's hard to get to where I want / expect to be by now. I would never leave the chores to my mum though and I clean up after myself. It's bad enough being at home, but I can't imagine how grown ass people my age don't do basic shit around the house. It's not even hard, you can learn how to cook and wash your clothes from google dammit. Also I've had depression in the past and I have ASD. It wasn't severe at all but pretty mild. But you know what? You see a psychologist and go to your sessions, you learn the skills to cope and you do your homework and eventually it gets better. There are some people who have it really bad and they're different, but I don't have much sympathy for people who are sick / not coping as they should and refuse to do anything about it.