Lesbianon transwoman dating eachother and calling themselves "lesbians"

submitted by verystablegenius from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 49 insightful - 2 fun49 insightful - 1 fun50 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

I'm not a psychiatrist, so I'm basing this on having lived with a Narcissistic Personality Disordered mother for the first half of my life.

First I will start off by giving you an example of her lunacy. When I was about 5 or 6 she got me a piano-like toy. It was something similar to this, but made in the 80's:

https://shopee.ph/Hello-Kitty-Toy-Piano-Organ-i.14475196.1113187959

The keys had numbers on them, and it came with a little guidebook, so I was able to kind of teach myself how to do Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

Then she started telling people that I could play the piano. Like... An actual fucking piano. The more she told this lie, the more elaborate it got. She kept telling all these people how I was getting lessons and I was like a little Mozart, that I could play all these different tunes, and how I'm a genius who can read music (I can't even read WORDS at that age, let alone music. I just know letters and numbers.) Meanwhile, I'm standing there having an anxiety attack because I'm terrified someone is going to randomly pull a piano out of their assholes and ask me to play something. I can't even really play, I just have the numbers on the keys memorized, so I wouldn't even be able to do Twinkle Twinkle on an actual piano.

But now we live in an alternate reality where I'm a 6 year old piano genius, and I'm not allowed to dispute this, or she will lose her fucking shit and go off on me. I mean, of course she knows I don't really play the piano, but that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that other people believe I can play the piano, and this makes her look good.

And in the same way, these straight men know they aren't women, and they know they aren't dating women, but that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the fantasy. So long as EVERYONE agrees on the fantasy, we're all good.

This is why validation is so important. I'm pretty sure many of the people my mother bragged to had a feeling I didn't play shit, especially from looking at me and how embarrassed and mortified I must have been acting as she bragged. But they knew they were dealing with an unhinged woman and that just smiling and nodding and making impressed sounds was the easiest path to take in this kind of situation.

This is how narcissists have been navigating through society for millennia. They just lie and lie and lie, and no one calls them on it because their lies are mostly for the purpose of making themselves look a certain way, so it doesn't really affect anyone else (except it does thought) and it's easier to just smile and nod than to say 'hold up, I don't think your kid can play piano.' Because how would that conversation even go? It would just be rude and awkward and it would cause the relationship to implode.

When we tell Trans Women that they and their girlfriends aren't women, that's exactly what we're doing, and you can see how they react. They are literally trying to get laws put into place so that we can't tell them this. It would be like my mother creating a law where no one is able to dispute my piano playing genius.

She wants to live in a fantasy world where she is a fantastic mother who birthed a genius, and no one will get in her way. He wants to live in a fantasy world where he is a woman dating a woman, and no one will get in his way. It's the same thing, really. But in order for it to work, everyone has to agree to stay silent and validate.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But in order for it to work, everyone has to agree to stay silent and validate.

Excellent summary.

One note:

It would just be rude and awkward and it would cause the relationship to implode.

Of course, these are not real, healthy, reciprocal relationships in which the other person actually exists as a separate human being to the narcissist; you as a child, and everyone around a narcissistic trans person, are just props in the play going on in their heads.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, exactly. If a member of her audience was to question her stories, they would immediately be demonized and devalued and she would start a smear campaign about them being "crazy" or "jealous" and try to ruin them, because they no longer have any value to her, since they don't want to give her any more of that delicious validation. These TRA tactics are SO FAMILIAR to me because they are classic NPD behaviors.

I don't want to generalize about all NPD, but my mother didn't even have ONE real friend. The only "friends" she had were (my opinion as a child/teen) dumb, insecure, vulnerable women who needed a loud-mouth bossy woman to tell them how to think/feel and what to do. As an adult looking back now, probably they came from abusive backgrounds so they gravitated to my mother to repeat a pattern. But even they didn't stick around too long, because she was just so negative and toxic all the time.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

she would start a smear campaign

Been there, every time I have to stand up to a narcissistic bully. It took me a long time to develop a thick skin about the kind of retaliation they dish out for simply being told no. I have no idea what stories they tell about me since I only know what's true, but one in particular managed to turn a few of her sycophants against me such that they dropped me as a friend and one treated me like a leper at an in-person gathering. (So hey, not real friends after all—that said, I don't wish her upon them, they just don't know better yet.) That was sure fun, being innocent and treated like the guilty party. It's horrifying. Which, of course, being vindictive abusers who feel very small and powerless inside, they enjoy. Oh here's a handy acronym, btw: https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html

I don't want to generalize about all NPD, but my mother didn't even have ONE real friend. The only "friends" she had were (my opinion as a child/teen) dumb, insecure, vulnerable women who needed a loud-mouth bossy woman to tell them how to think/feel and what to do.

Pretty common. They attract butt-kissing sycophants and well-meaning gullible / nice people who don't see them coming. The latter group at least can learn. The former group—well, a lot of them tend to be narcissistic themselves. The problem is that they are more than willing to be "flying monkeys" for the narcissist and extend the reach and duration of their abuse of the target. ETA: They respond to charisma, and narcissists tend to exude it. It's an intoxicant.

[–]verystablegenius[S] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

WOW. I was not expecting this. Thank you for sharing your story and being able to relate it so perfectly to my question and the greater issues at large. Sucks your mom was a psycho. Your comment did make me laugh, though. Cheers. Also, are you Filipino (I'm noticing the Shoppee link)

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No, not Filipino. I just google image searched "Hello Kitty Piano", and that was the one that looked most like mine. :)

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Dude this story is so relatable, and the perfect example. I was also raised by a narcissist mom. The flipside is that people like us can spot narcissistic personality disorder and other assorted personality-disordered behavior from a mile away. But unfortunately most people cannot and assume that people like this are operating on good faith while these narcs are codifying their narcissism into law and public policy.

The other thing to know about narc behavior is that their lies are so wild, bold, and internally inconsistent, because they have no use for the actual truth. Their stories don't need to be internally consistent because, as you said, they are relying on other peoples' good manners not to call them out. For them, their emotional needs dictate reality. If they need something to be true in a particular moment to protect their fragile ego, that thing is true, even if it's your own motivation for doing something, because they know your feelings and emotions better than you do (in their fragile deluded minds).

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have an NPD father. I agree with your take but want to add that it gets worse if they have money like my father did. Then they pay people to be around you to fill your head with lies in an attempt to make you a willing participant in their games. I rememeber hearing the words "your father is the smartest man Ive ever met," numerous times in my childhood. No, the reason he knew everything was because he bugged the entire house.....a few years ago he said to me (once I had finally managed to slip from his grasp) that it was really diffficult to raise a son smarter than him....difficult, I imagine, because he couldnt pass his bs off on me as he could with others. Did he promote my stregnths and help me succed in life? Fuck no, he focused on areas were I was weak and demanded I improve those areas in order to be valid in his eyes. That way he could always find fault. If I ever did anything good he would find some hiatorical figure and be like "well they did it better so you still have work to do." People with NPD should not be allowed to raise children. /endrant

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel for you. That sounds like a special breed of awful. The worst part is possibly the gaslighting by well-intentioned others. It really mirrors the situation with trans-enablers who ask “why can’t you just be nice?” And “but s/he’s your mother/father. Of course s/he loves you and wants what’s best for you.” And you can never really adequately explain your side to them. They just think you’re crazy because surely no parent would actually treat their child that way.

In my case, my mother’s siblings don’t need me to explain why I removed my mother from my life. They grew up with her. But my dad’s family members who have been exposed to my mom’s crazy but also to her fake sweet side cannot possibly understand just how sick she really is. So I can’t even explain myself to them. I just say that I have no reason to ever talk to her again and that there is no relationship to rekindle because we never had one. I make it clear that I will not attend an event at the same time as her but that that’s not something for them to arrange (I arrange it through my dad) and if they have to make a choice, to just choose her and there will be no hard feelings from me.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad you got out from under the thumb of your mom. Getting away from NPD parents can be really really hard. Not just from the fact that NPD people are impossible to reason with and very controlling but the fact of the matter is no one really WANTS to cut family out of their life. Things have to go really south for one to do that....I feel for you with trying to explain it to others. My dad as well has a very sweet side and used his money to help many people, but never his family. A cousin of his pulled me aside at a family gathering and told me that my grandfather (who died when I was like 8 so I don't really have much of a memory of him) was the exact same way. He treated outsiders like family and family like shit. I actually feel sorry for my dad these days. He has dementia and ironically dementia eats away at the NPD area first so he's become a bit of a different person and gets really sad when I tell him how he treated his children when we were younger. It's gotten to the point that I don't even bring it up anymore because it serves no point. It only hurts him and wont change the past anyways.

As to well intentioned outsiders....I honestly think most of them had bad intentions for me and were only too happy to shit all over me and my siblings for that cold hard cash. People who work for the wealthy normally hate their children and treat them like garbage. This isn't exclusive to rich NPD parents I grew up in wealthy area and saw it all the time. The parents are totally detached in their own lives, see their children maybe once or twice a day (or week) and the rest of the time the kids are raised by the hired help, who despise them. I think the main difference was my dad would fire anyone who told him his treatment of his children was immoral and actively seek out people who would do his bidding. I was told numerous times by outgoing help that they were leaving because they had told my father that he was making us miserable and my dad had literally said "their feelings don't matter," and then fired them.

[–]a_blue_bird 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This reminded me about a girl named Gypsy Rose Blanchard. I used to not believe in much of psychology, especially things like munchausen by proxy seemed very far fetched to me. Her story really changed my opinion (it's all over Youtube for anyone interested). Apparently her mother was lying to everyone that she has cancer, asthma, muscular dystrophy and numerous other diseases. Obviously, she had to make it believable. So for almost 2 decades she was shaving her daughter's hair (for her to look like a cancer patient), forcing her to use a wheelchair, pretend to be unable to walk in front of cameras, pretend that she cannot speak normally etc. It ended tragically, because eventually the girl convinced some guy to kill her mother, and now is in prison. I'm pretty sure that many trans kids are being manipulated and used by their parents in similar ways (not as extreme obviously).

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You've seen the miniseries, right? It was so good! Everyone here needs to watch it to see how cray-cray these mothers can really be!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_(TV_series)

[–]a_blue_bird 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I didn't know about the series. Will have to watch it now.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a really interesting take and I might need to marinate with this.

Wanted to point out that people do things like this ALL the time. Just with different random issues. I just never related it to the double transbian relationships.

We all have or know that mom who won't let a kid's friend in the house because there's a single piece of lint on the floor. Or the guy who acts super nice then turns around and talks endless shit behind your back.

I've never understood this mentality. I want to see your real face, not the performance of the fake version of you. I guess this is why we all ended up here though. TRAs insisting that their "identity" is their real face is exactly the same as the mom insisting that the spotless un-lived-in house is the real house.