BisexualWhat are your opinions on pansexuality? Imo it's just bisexual except trying to be more "inclusive" and special

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[–]julesburm1891 48 insightful - 2 fun48 insightful - 1 fun49 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Tbh, I’m here for the pansexuality of 2010. How it was framed then was “bisexual, but cool with dating trans people.” I think acknowledging that not all bisexuals want to date someone with mixed-sex characteristics is actually kind of useful.

The pansexuality of 2020 is a condescending, biphobic side show though.

[–][deleted] 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I have anecdotally found that almost NO bi people want to date trans people, and ESPECIALLY trans people with opposite sex genitals. My pool of bisexual pals are mostly female (because men are not allowed to really be bisexual, and I for real think there are LOTS of them that exist despite studies saying it’s not a thing), and the female bisexuals I know who have voiced their opinion on this shit seem to really not be into trans women. I’ve seen bisexuals and lesbians with trans men, and even some bi men with trans men rarely, but I think it’s incorrect that people think bi women are into trans women. I think pan was sort of made to cope with transmen’s gender feels wails. Lol. Trans men in particular

Bi or lesbians who had women they loved or wanted who started to trans id used “pan” as a way to try and save their spot as female-leaning or straight up gay women in a community of women who couldn’t handle being female and demanded their partners sort of renounce their place in the community to be with them. It was horrible.

Edit: so what I mean is pan was sort of MADE by bisexual and lesbians who knew dating trans men was still dating women, and the bi women were trying to resist trashing their own label that everyone was starting to call “transphobic” and lesbians could not square being bi because they knew it was not true. So pan. Essential “pan” is a lesbian and bisexual COPE. Wlw trying to cope as things began to get worse for them. It started that way in my groups anyway.

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That is really interesting, I did not know much about pansexual as a term but that makes sense.

(because men are not allowed to really be bisexual, and I for real think there are LOTS of them that exist despite studies saying it’s not a thing),

I think a lot of the support for this idea comes from a researcher named Michael Bailey, who actually walked back his conclusion saying "bisexual men don't really exist" after a bi organization pointed out some of his study's flaws.

This is an updated article on his research.. "research". The fact that it took outside people and organization calling out the issues with his work for him to get it right, makes me really angry. https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/study-on-bisexual-orientation-is-changing-outdated-attitudes/amp

2014 NYT article about how he started to change his tune: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/magazine/the-scientific-quest-to-prove-bisexuality-exists.html

I might actually make a post about this, I didn't realize there was a 2020 study that came out so recently.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(because men are not allowed to really be bisexual, and I for real think there are LOTS of them that exist despite studies saying it’s not a thing)

Oh, they exist all right. Most of the men I've been close to whether sexually or otherwise have been bisexual. Also, I prefer them to straight men. They're more open-minded, more emotionally available, more adventuresome, and way less stuck in gender stereotypes in my (not-statistically-significant) experience. I've heard that from others as well.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that Bailey's study was blown out of proportion or taken out of context because the point was that often people are inaccurate about the self-identification of their sexual orientation, and that that was especially the case with people claiming to be bisexuals. I don't think it's controversial that people are often wrong when claiming to be bisexual. A lot of us hold onto the belief that we're bisexual before we realize we're gay. A lot of straight people claim to be bisexual to appear interesting and open-minded. The point is that in the field of sexuality you often can't rely on a person's self-label to be accurate. He re-did the study and instead formed the bisexual pool out of those who have had at least at least one relationship of three months or more with with both men and women. And once sourced that way, the individuals' bisexuality was affirmed.

The parallel is with transgender people as he has observed that a lot of their narrative is fictional and misappropriated, particularly by AGPs fabricating cover stories to appear HSTS.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have anecdotally found that almost NO bi people want to date trans people, and ESPECIALLY trans people with opposite sex genitals

It is more like almost no people in general want to date trans people, as it brings a lot of troubles and their looks are often on an "uncanny valley" territory. Nowadays especially, with all those mispronounses and other annoying stuff no one will want to deal with. Relationships are for comfort and love, not for fights and annoyance.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Most trans people have a lot of baggage, and are so focused on themselves and their feelings they don’t have much to offer a partner until they can stop being so self-revolved. Even if transgenderism did not produce odd looking people, being with someone so self-absorbed and with such a fraught relationship to their own body is exhausting for their partner, and not exciting for anyone looking for a partner. Most people don’t want to sign up for a partner who hates their own body, especially when they are guaranteed future health risks because of transition. It’s just really not appealing to a healthy adult to envision being with someone like this.

[–]8bitgay 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never understand their reaction to 2010 pan. It's always like "No, you're not pan just because you like trans!". They complain so much about people who don't date them, but they also complain about people who would date them. Why don't you go for this definition of pan instead of trying to go for LGB people who aren't attracted to you?

I've even seen a couple comments in gay subs of FtM guys saying they want to date gay guys, not bi, because they're afraid a bi guy might be attracted just because he views the FtM as a woman. Again, they complain about us because we don't feel attraction, but they also seem to sabotage any chance of being with people that could be attracted to them.

Not to mention that the community is now saying that lesbians and gays should also date non-binary, genderqueer, etc. If LGB has to feel attracted to trans, if LGB has to feel attracted to non-binary genders, then what's the point of the pan label even existing?

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pans are not remotely validating enough for them. And their transgender identity being valid means more to themselves then finding a compatible mate. Their priorities are all flipped. No wonder so many are never happy when Love is only of secondary importance. This is why they don't fit with the LGB.