Suddenly it’s like their lesbianism never existed :(

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[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Thanks for the clarification. I looked up everyone I named to make sure, but I guess I am confused by the new standards. In my view, actions speak louder than words, so women who exclusively date other women (in adulthood - dalliances in youth don't count) are lesbians, whether or not they "identify as" or publicly come out and announce to the world they are lesbians. The behavior is the defining characteristic, not the adoption of the label. This seems especially the case for women in entertainment, where there's so much pressure to carefully manage one's public image and try to manipulate/control public perception. It's like Liberace - he publicly denied he was gay his whole life, even winning a major libel suit against a British tabloid for suggesting he was gay. And for years he claimed he was engaged to marry Sonja Henie. But no matter what Liberace said, and no matter how often he was seen out on the town, in publicity photos or in films with women on his arm or in his arms, the man was still 100% gay.

[–]oofreesouloo 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

women who exclusively date other women are lesbians

Not necessarily. By that logic, a woman who dates no one is asexual (which may or not be the case). By that logic, a bisexual woman who only chooses to date men is straight. By that logic, a male exclusively attracted to males who only dates women out of pressure of a homophobic society is straight. He can lie to himself and to everyone, but in the end he's gay and that is the only truth, because sexual orientation is defined by who you're attracted to, not who you date.

Sorry, but that's just not how it works and you're just as bad as TRAs redefining homosexuality. Let us lesbians be jeez. I really don't understand what's up with people nowadays constantly wanting to redefine lesbianism to include males. It doesn't. Ever. And you're not being only lesbophobic, but also biphobic.

[–]grixit 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sexual orientation is about what sexes you are attracted to, whether or not you act on it.

[–]oofreesouloo 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly!!

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I take your point. Apologies for the misrepresentation. I've previously used the correct definition.

What I'm confused about - and thrown by - is the fashionable new idea that those who publicly deny their sexual orientation, or try to hide it with the new identity labels now in vogue such as "fluid" and "queer," or pretend to have an entirely different orientation, are not actually the orientation they in fact are coz "we have to believe people are who they say they are."

According to identity politics today, the only thing that counts is not who one actually is attracted to, who one dates or beds, or what sex one is - but how one labels oneself or "identifies." The identity crowd says the reality of people's feelings and attractions, their actual behaviors, nor their biological sex actually matter - all that matters are the labels that people choose to slap on themselves.

Along with this, there seems to be a new corresponding belief among young people today that no one is gay, bi, straight, trans or whatever until they publicly announce it on social media - or if they're a public figure like Sam Smith, Eddie Izzard or Kevin Spacey, until they issue a press release or reveal it in a media appearance. According to the new thinking, it's unseemly to speculate about or make any assumptions about another person's sexuality based on their behaviors until they tell us with words what their sexuality is - just the way as it's unseemly to assume a person' sex until they tell us "how they identify." Therefore, it's wrong to consider Liberace gay coz he publicly denied it all his life - and his attorneys and estate continued to do so after his death.

So now we have straight men calling themselves women and lesbians, and lesbians claiming to be men and straight men to boot. And a whole lot of straight people are calling themselves "queer" so they can pretend to be part of the "LGBTQ." At the same time, many lesbians are trying to dissociate themselves from being lesbians by calling themselves "fluid," bi, pan, saying they don't like labels, avoiding the convo altogether, or saying their pronouns are now "he/him" or "they/them."

BTW, I wouldn't assume someone who dates no one is asexual. Lots of people of all sexualities don't date for all sorts of reasons. That's called celibacy, not asexuality.

Again, my apologies for my poor choice of words.

But as to you saying

you're just as bad as TRAs...And you're not being only lesbophobic, but also biphobic.

Hurling ridiculous, baseless ad hominems and accusations of "phobia" don't make for convincing arguments.

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are febfems - female exclusive bisexual females. This still not making them lesbians.

Even if bisexual woman is dating only women, she is still bisexual and not representing lesbians, as she still finds men attractive and can be aroused by men, can talk about dating men or liking PiV sex. That is not good role models or example for young lesbians, as because of many bisexual women, who are calling themselves lesbians and because of lesbophobia with "lesbian sex is not real sex, you are virgin until you try penis" and who are dating and sleeping with women to be "virgins" before the find "right man" - many men thinking that they can be "the right dick" for us and we will start dating or loving them, like other "lesbians" did. That is why actual lesbian is needed to look for.

gender identity politics

According to their ideology, we are attracted not to females, but to femininity. So "feminine" transwomen, drag queens and "feminine" men are in our dating pool. They are completely forgetting that butch lesbians is a thing when saying this. But when transwoman is making 0 effort to pass and looking like a regular man with beard, they are remembering butch lesbians and calling themselves like that - aka "you are liking butch lesbians, and I am butch trans-lesbian".

[–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much. Almost no one actually respects us, lesbians, even the ones who try to fight for women's rights don't respect us.

[–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

According to identity politics today, the only thing that counts is not who one actually is attracted to, who one dates or beds, or what sex one is - but how one labels oneself or "identifies."

Exactly and that's why subs like LGBDropTheT exist because we're strongly against that very idea.

BTW, I wouldn't assume someone who dates no one is asexual. Lots of people of all sexualities don't date for all sorts of reasons. That's called celibacy, not asexuality.

So why do you use here a certain logic but with lesbianism you use a different logic? You lack consistency. If a bisexual women decides for a certain period of time (because it doesn't need to be forever) not to date men, for example, she would be "celibate" in a way in what regards to relationships of the opposite sex. She chose not to date opposite sex members, but it doesn't mean she suddenly lesbian.

At the same time, many lesbians are trying to dissociate themselves from being lesbians by calling themselves "fluid," bi, pan, saying they don't like labels, avoiding the convo altogether, or saying their pronouns are now "he/him" or "they/them."

This is unfortunately true. But guess what? Even if this is the case with Kristen Stewart or Cara Delevingne, a self-hating lesbian is no role model for young lesbians, sorry. A self-hating lesbian who is uncapable to say she's a lesbian is no role model. And we can assume things sure, but we can never be 100% whether they're lesbian or not. And the fact is neither of them came out as lesbians. So yes, Ellen Page was one of the few people we can was a lesbian role model. Apart from her (and a few other names like Ellen Degeneres and Portia de Rossi), we lack lesbian visibility a lot.

Hurling ridiculous, baseless ad hominems and accusations of "phobia" don't make for convincing arguments.

I've explained why I called you that in comments and I maintain my words. And I keep on explaining. Just own it that you were lesbophobic and biphobic.

Anyway, I've said it all so far. No further interest keeping this conversation, honestly. I'm fed up of these type of long answers trying to convince people that lesbianism isn't just exclusively attracted to females. I'm out. Have a nice day

[–]MezozoicGay 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Exactly and that's why subs like LGBDropTheT exist because we're strongly against that very idea.

It is not what we are strongly against, it is not what we are. Homosexuality is not a choice, not a performance and not what you are showing, it is just exclusive attraction to people of same sex as you are. Nothing less, nothing more.

[–]oofreesouloo 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, you put it into words much better than I did. Thank you.

[–]kahkahtesstess 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Huh? How is she being lesbophobic or biphobic? I think you're misunderstanding her message completely and then jumping to whateverphobia as a conclusion.

[–]oofreesouloo 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biphobia:

  • Just because a bisexual woman is exclusively in a homosexual relationships doesn't mean she's suddenly lesbian.

  • Just because a bisexual woman is exclusively in straight relationships doesn't mean she's suddenly straight.

Lesbophobia:

  • A lesbian is a homosexual female, meaning no attraction to males. If you start saying that bisexual women can be lesbians, you're promoting the idea that lesbians do have attraction towards males and simply hadn't found the right d*ck. Our sexual orientation isn't still respected by society because of people like the person I was responding to or TRAs who keep politicizing our sexuality and don't leave us alone.

Is that clear now?

If you still say you don't understand, then you're just playing dumb at this point and do not want to understand and simply show disrespect towards lesbians and bi women.