Ridiculousness of Some Gay Men on Transgenderism & "Woman"

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

These people are impossible to deal with...

So, he is a bisexual man pretending to be gay? What does he gain with this? Only for the woke points?

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yep, he's a bisexual man pretending to be gay though I think he genuinely may think he's gay because the trans-identified women can often "pass" as men hence why he considers himself a "Gay" man. But like most of these idiots, they don't understand SEX in "SEXUALITY". Sex organs matter and actual gay men do not find vaginas arousing just like lesbians don't find dick arousing, it's only the Bisexuals who claim that these things don't matter. Again not all of them of course but only them.

I think he's just trying to get woke points.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Kai, yes, these dunderheads don't understand the sex in sexuality and sexual orientation. But I think you're being misleading in your narrow focus on sex organs. Most males who are are attracted to females are not usually attracted to vaginas per se, but to females in their totality - the whole body - including many things about the body that can't been seen or touched, such as smell and pheromones - as well as the human personalities of females. If we have to narrow it down to single elements, I think many males would tell you it's things like the shape of a woman's buttocks and back, her legs, the curve of her jaw, the look of her face, her hands, her sense of humor, her confidence, etc that's the biggest attraction and turn-on.

From my observation over more than 50 years, the idea that sexual attraction is mainly about genitals is a new idea in our culture that has only appeared in recent years - and it seems to come mainly from men (and perhaps some young women now too) who have learnt most/much of what they know about sex from graphic pornography in which the genitals can be seen prominently.

And this idea also seems to come from gay male culture. It's gay males who are the ones really into genitals - in their case dick - a fact that became glaringly obvious in the genitally explicit gay male porn and art that emerged and in the 1960s & 70s and had become mainstream by the 1980s(such as Tom of Finland and Robert Mapplethorpe's photos).

The trends in gay male porn have always been very different to those in heterosexual male porn. None of the mainstream "girly magazines" nor porn films meant for heterosexual men traditionally showed female genitals. Often, the female crotch was kept hidden - you didn't even see the mons pubis or a bush. That eventually changed in the 60s, but even so it wasn't at all common for mainstream porn to show female genitals in an up-close and personal, detailed way the way online porn now does. Whilst hardcore stuff was available, in the mid-20th century mainstream porn made for het men was mostly about breasts, backsides, legs, faces and the female form in its entirety - not about genitals. In fact, shots of women's genitals were shied away from and were thought that they'd put men off coz they were "too clinical." The only exception to this that I know of was Screw magazine, a tabloid on newsprint which was showing spread-legged crotch shots of women in its inside fold circa 1970. When Hustler magazine "showed pink" - code word letting a bit of the vulva appear in photos it published for the first time in 1974, it was a very big deal - and widely considered shocking.

Similarly, I don't think it's correct to suggest it's only lesbians who "don't find dick arousing." Coz the fact is, a lot of females who are attracted to males don't find dick arousing, either. Lots of het and bi women who love men are decidedly lukewarm about male genitals - and many find male genitals to be unattractive, funny looking, even ugly and repulsive. If you spoke to a wide range of opposite-sex attracted females about this, I suspect you'd find that a majority of us are attracted to males in spite of their genitals, not because of them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Kai, yes, these dunderheads don't understand the sex in sexuality and sexual orientation. But I think you're being misleading in your narrow focus on sex organs. Most males who are are attracted to females are not usually attracted to vaginas per se, but to females in their totality - the whole body - including many things about the body that can't been seen or touched, such as smell and pheromones - as well as the human personalities of females. If we have to narrow it down to single elements, I think many males would tell you it's things like the shape of a woman's buttocks and back, her legs, the curve of her jaw, the look of her face, her hands, her sense of humor, her confidence, etc that's the biggest attraction and turn-on.

I don't deny that those things are just as important to the attraction but I try not to lean too much into that because then you have "those" people who say that men can possess those things as well. Men can be smaller in stature and have small hands and shapely buttocks and so on. I just try to keep it to the point because it's the one thing that men can't have.

Whilst hardcore stuff was available, in the mid-20th century mainstream porn made for het men was mostly about breasts, backsides, legs, faces and the female form in its entirety - not about genitals

I actually have noticed this when I used to look at hererosexual porn and "Playboy". You're right, it's mostly about the face (albeit all done up in heavy makeup), breasts, butts, legs, and back but again, the reason why I don't like to zone in too much on this is because then those people who argue that transwomen are women by showcasing a trans-identified man who get breast implants, wearing heavy makeup, and skin all shaved smooth. Because I've seen in some threads on Reddit of guys using these Transwomen porn models as "looking better than real women".

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think I explained my point well enough. In the days before the internet, when nearly all people had the bulk of their interactions IRL (with some letters and phones calls in addition) and dick pics and nude selfies sent via smart phones weren't yet a thing, most people came face to face with the physical totality of other people. And since everyone except naturists and people who lived on warm beaches was usually wearing clothes, not all body parts of other people were visible. People became attracted to the whole person and the parts that were visible or were outlined or suggested by the shape of clothes, but they only discovered and saw each other's parts hidden under the clothes much later - and since so many people in the old days had sex in the dark, lots of people didn't necessarily see each other's genitals initially - or ever.

Even when couples had sex in daylight or with the lights on, the nature of female anatomy means most males never saw their female partners' genitals unless they did cunnilingus with their eyes wide open. But even then, when men went down on women they usually didn't spend their time eyeing the women's genitals - in part coz they'd be at too close range to see properly. Their mouths were on the genitals, but their eyes were usually looking up to see their partners' reactions.

Here's an example from my own life: when I started seeing the man I eventually married, he was always dressed in a business suit the first dozen or more times I saw him. I had no idea then what his feet, ankles, legs, ass, forearms, shoulders, back, ass or genitals looked liked. Only after we had started falling in love did I see him in a short sleeved shirt, shorts and without socks - and it was only then that I first became aware of the shape of his forearms, the color and pattern of the hairs on them, the turn of his ankles, the lovely shape of his calves and knees, etc. I found those parts of him very attractive, but they were not what attracted me to him initially coz I had no idea what they looked like. And it took many more dates before we began having sex and I saw him naked.

BTW, I think it's very interesting that when I said for men it's

things like the shape of a woman's buttocks and back, her legs, the curve of her jaw, the look of her face, her hands, her sense of humor, her confidence, etc that's the biggest attraction and turn-on

You responded by saying

I don't deny that those things are just as important to the attraction but I try not to lean too much into that because then you have "those" people who say that men can possess those things as well. Men can be smaller in stature and have small hands and shapely buttocks and so on. I just try to keep it to the point because it's the one thing that men can't have.

Kai, in my description I never mentioned smaller stature or small hands - I never mentioned size at all. And I wouldn't coz I don't think in those terms, coz I'm not one who has ever thought that being female and attractive = being short, small, dainty, delicate. You're the one making those stereotypical assumptions. I did mention "shapely buttocks," but there are a zillion ways for humans of both sexes to have shapely buttocks. Lots of men have great asses, and they are in no way female-like.

It's not just vaginas and other female gentials that males who ID as trans can never have, it's being female. Which is an inherent fact of biology that can't be replicated by any human intervention, be it hormones or surgeries. There are dimensions to human experience that you seem to discount to because you seem so exclusively focused on the visual, on what things look like in a surface way, and you seem to think that most people can't discern between reality and facsimile, between authenticity and pretense.

Also, just as the fauxlvas and fauxginas of males who've had trans genital surgeries are nothing like the vulvas and vaginas of actual female people, the breasts of males who take CSHs and/or get sacs of gel or fluid implanted into their chests don't feel, look, move or function like female breasts. You've really gotta stop believing that "those people" whose views you put such stock in are most knowledgable and authoritative about human sexuality and sexual relations. It sounds to me like "those people" get most of their ideas about sex from porn, gaming, make-believe, cosplay, queer theory, gender ideology, and relating to others through technological devices rather than in real life. I am so sorry this is what the world has come to.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You make good points. I apologize. And when I talk about "those" people, the people I'm referring to are the ones (women included) who will try to use any leeway you seemingly may hand to them and they just run with it.