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[–]forwardback 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OMG, yes! Party loyalties are NOT the answer! Please, let us take up the question presented in this article: "And how will this affect women?" Please, let this be our common focus!

The mistake that feminists have made again and again, not only in America but also in this country, is to prioritise animosity towards the right over a clear-eyed understanding of the attitude that the left takes towards women. The results of that mistake are, I think, beginning to become too glaring to ignore.

Package deal ethics produces not only blind tribalism but also incoherence

I submit package deal ethics enables inaction on all the issues involved! Lip service only is the result.

The time has run out for the "party's good on this issue, we'll get to that issue later" thinking. Let's focus- on Women and girls! If we don't, no one will!

[–]notcisjustwoman 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Insofar as left represents anti capitalism, there is literally no way for women to be free without us embracing economic left principles. As long as there is money to be made abusing us, and capital to be amassed using the labor of our children, this is where we are.

Women will never be free under capitalism, it's not even theoretically possible in any coherent way.

We don't have to support any particular party or individual but we do have to remove the economic incentive to our oppression.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It seems what is considered as left really depends on where you're. I always associated the left with anti-capitalism, but for instance, as far as I've seen, Americans call the Democratic Party the left, even though I think it's actually very pro-capitalist. The only reason they are called that way is because in there are only two parties that matter in the US.

I'm not from the US, but my country's politics are also very polarized. And I've been growing very tired of this "You're either with us or against us" mentality, which nor even a pandemic could stop it, or the fact that our politicians exploit these differences in their favour. So, yes, I don't think blind loyalty towards any particular party is a good idea. And when it comes to women's rights, I think this article's author is spot on. You can find mysogynists in every political party. So, even though we may think a certain political ideology is better for women in theory, we should not assumed this will be the case in practice. Personally, I don't think I could ever ignore all other political matters, but I agree the question "And how will this affect women?" is very important.

When TRA get gender identity codified into Argentinian law, nobody asked us women what we thought about it. They just did it without asking because they claimed it was just a minor change that will improve greatly a very vulnerable population and it would not affect anybody else. Of course, this was lie and they kept asking for more. There have been 8 years since they made self-ID and free hormones and SRS a reality here and they are still not satisfied! And still nobody is asking how all this transgender stuff affect women. If I was already unsatisfied with Argentinian politics, learning about transgender ideology has just made it worse.

[–]bopomofodojo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but for instance, as far as I've seen, Americans call the Democratic Party the left, even though I think it's actually very pro-capitalist. The only reason they are called that way is because in there are only two parties that matter in the US.

Precisely. Or put another way, "liberalism is the most left you can go in the US before the establishment silences or murders-then-whitewashes you". American leftism, of the actual leftist anti-capitalist variety, was destroyed near-completely in the majority with the Red Scare and within the most marginalized communities after the destruction of the Black Panther party (arguably by the CIA). What is called "left" in the US is nothing of the sort, which is just yet another method of capitalist control.

[–]redditbegay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This particular difference between Britain and America is emblematic of a more general difference between the two countries which has had an important effect on the history of Anglophone feminism. Put simply, the American right has an entirely different character from the British right: it is louder, more extreme, more religious, and also more powerful. It presents a genuinely formidable threat to the defenders of Roe, and indeed the defenders of some of the most basic feminist principles: a woman’s rights to earn money, own property, and in all other ways live a legal and economic life separate from that of her father or husband.

The give and take of abortion has been used as a political football for decades, the republicans have little true interest to legislate it nationally, because they have already had occassions when they could have undone it, and had not. The republicans also have scare issues they use to drum up support once people notice they have little to stand for.

The difference between left-wing and right-wing when it comes to women is only about where exactly on our necks their boots should be placed. To right-wing men, we are private property. To left-wing men, we are public property.

In a general way, that is so very accurate.

Terf ideology has become the de facto face of feminism in the UK, helped along by media leadership from Rupert Murdoch and The Times of London. Any vague opposition to gender-critical thought in the UK brings along accusations of “silencing women” and a splashy feature or op-ed in a British national newspaper.

Wouldn't it be nice if that was the situation for newspapers here? Alas...

it just needed an audience that was willing to be persuaded. In America, political polarisation is too severe, and the extreme right too frightening, to allow a non-partisan debate to be had.

This is mostly a larger product of the media and its own goals for people's discussion in the US.

and women are in a unique position in that they are very often victims but only rarely perpetrators. This means that, as a group, women have a rational incentive to support tough-on-crime policies, and these are policies that are more often supported by right-leaning parties, particularly now, when “defund the police” has become such a fashionable slogan on the left.

This also depends on what the long term effect of being 'tough on crime' is (which biden was for) or if the increased incarceration and locking up people for nonviolent offences just adds to the financial inequality between certain races and classes.

many of the young victims of the grooming gangs emerged from their abuse to find themselves friendless, abandoned by those who profess to be most concerned with the protection of the vulnerable and marginalised

This was one of the greatest crimes that recieves almost no media coverage, it should be a national story by this point.

So when there is no conflict between what feminists want and what these other groups want — when, for instance, the perpetrators of violence against women and girls are safely-privileged rich white men like Harvey Weinstein — then the feminist view can win out.

And to add to the point, besides oprah helping harvey find victims, the political democrats found it convenient to stump on how important women are and we need to believe all women's stories- until the harassment centered around someone they wanted to push and so all the criticisms and support of those victims was thrown away.

Package deal ethics produces not only blind tribalism but also incoherence

Absolutely it does. This was an excellent article, i wish that we could upvote this one twice.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed.

I refuse to vote for leftist parties anymore, I can't bring myself to put them in charge and give them the idea that they are doing good, not to mention I refuse to be directly responsible of the shit they are going to do.

I seriously doubt I will ever be able to trust leftist parties anymore, but even if I were they would need a radical renovation and injection of some fucking brain cells and integrity. Which, I am afraid, is pretty much impossible.

It pains me to see women and feminists saying stuff like "keep talking, they will se the light" or "we can think about women's rights later, they are not a pressing matter". Especially when it's painfully obvious that the people they are supporting don't give a shit about women and will just fuck us over again when it's convenient.

[–]SharpTomorrow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the sense that feminists shouldn't call people to vote for Biden or anybody else. It doesn't mean that they can't be democrat or whatever, but they need to stop being affiliated to political parties as feminist organizations. I'm sorry but I don't understand how a feminist can vote for somebody like Biden, an alleged rapist and obvious creep, just because Trump is bad. Vote for none of them or you're just voting for the status quo, what good feminism is in that case? it's good for nothing.