SNL just called out JKR for a 2nd time and more undercutting of white women - 3rd week in a row

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[–]thrownawaycan 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (34 children)

So here's a question that i always want to ask in this convo but it never seems appropriate.

Who is all the "BBC destroys white teen pussy" porn for? I've seen a lot of people saying it's for white women, and I don't know, there's so much of it professionally produced that I find it hard to believe.

I guess I struggle from it because of my perspective, as a white woman who has dealt with men of color being really creepy/fetishistic over my being white. I get that preference for white women is absolutely part of racism and related to denigration of WoC, but I guess I see race and patriarchy intersecting in a weird way when followed to my car by a dude saying really weird shit about my skin color.

[–]lefterfield 30 insightful - 3 fun30 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

No porn is made for women. As a white woman who was used by a black man for my whiteness, I think patriarchy and racism is a lot more complicated than the original comment implies.

[–]thrownawaycan 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

There's also the "white women are for fucking, <women of my own race> are for loving and having families" attitude that I've run into a fair amount.

I'm not saying that white women aren't creepy and fetishistic towards men of color, they absolutely can be and are, I guess it's more the intersection between the two is more complicated than just "white women bad".

[–]Veneficca 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Like the Rotherham rapes in the UK, where predominantly Pakistani men targeted thousands of white girls for sexual abuse. Horrific scandal and everyone STILL gets uncomfortable talking about the real dynamics at play.

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, absolutely.

[–]gravitywitch 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I always thought things like that were for white males to be honest. Just like how any porn with “Ebony” tacked onto it (ebony women, ebony bbw, ebony teen, etc.) seems to be popular among white males just the same. I’m honestly starting to think they’re obsessed with the stereotype of black men being beasts and bucks with long schlongs lol (not true at all btw). It’s true that black males (men of color in general) fetishize white women and it does have something to do with racism (the self hate and white women being seen as a buffer against experienced racism). There are, however, white women who fetishize black men (and men of color in general). There are women of color who fetishize white men as well as black men. As a black woman myself, I’ve run into plenty of white men who’ve fetishized me. Most of the time it’s accompanied by stereotyped thoughts of how I should act as a black woman. I’m to be open to sex at any time, open to receiving gross behavior, and open to receiving less than white women according to these particular men simply because they’re white and a catch to someone like me. Pfft. Ok. Point is, anyone can fetishize anyone, but if we’re really getting into it, most of the fetishized behavior come from males. The type of man who fetishizes others seem to think they own anything and anyone in their sight.

[–]yousaythosethings 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is what I was getting at, and I'm sorry you've experienced that. Yes, there is a lot of fetishization going on between different groups, and none of it is good, but it does strike me as weird that it's getting increasingly popular to act like the primary perpetrators of pernicious discrimination are women, and especially white women. I don't think fetishization by white women would be a problem to call out if they weren't deliberately ignoring the bigger elephant in the room with a lot more social power. And in the greater context of what they're doing, it does look sinister.

I have also noticed black women being written out of the script in genderist discourse, including with all of this discussion about biological sex being a tool of colonialism meanwhile black trans-identified males can openly denigrate black women. Meanwhile lesbians are being told creepy shit like there's not much of difference in the skeletal structure of male bodies and black women's bodies so if we're attracted to black women, we have no excuse to not be attracted to males. It's all so disturbing and divisive.

[–]loveSloane 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

I’d say, considering how much they profit from it, that that porn is for white people. They’ve turned it into a huge market. White female performers literally hold off on sleeping with black men on camera until they have made a name for themselves and then they sleep with black performers and get paid significantly more for doing so. That alone is exploitation imo

I don’t think that many white people understand how systemic racism has psychologically affected black people (which is okay- it’s not meant as a negative- it doesn’t affect them, why would they be well informed on it?) and I don’t know of the forum to direct you to for an education. I’m not defending black men or how they treat women of any race- literally all I said is that white women fetishizing black men is very much a thing that is worth discussing. And the comments I’ve received seem to ignore that or get defensive and try to shift “blame”- I didn’t say all white women do this or even that most do- I said it does happen and SNL was right to call it out. It doesn’t mean that females aren’t oppressed by males. It doesn’t mean white women equal evil and black men equal good. It means that the race that holds the upper hand and is responsible for a lot of oppression (and racism) over pretty much all other races also can have a tendency to fetishize the people they oppress. As far as intersectionality- sometimes that means that someone oppressed because of their sex is still highly privileged because of their race. And I think snl and the people who make comments about white Women fetishizing black men are just more willing to acknowledge that.

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I could be wrong, but I've heard that white female performers who do racial porn get paid less, not more. The reason they hold off on it is because doing it tends to hurt their careers. Porn is exploitative, but I strongly doubt that the female performers are in a position to exploit the men they have sex with, regardless of race. Those decisions are being made by the producers or managers, who are high majority white men.

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

You can literally watch interview upon interview of white female porn actresses discussing when they finally decide to “do a bbc”. I’m sure there are many who don’t have a choice- there are also very many who hold off on it and then make more money for doing it, I looked into this last year, they compare it to things like “finally doing anal”. It’s for the fetish, it’s because it’s considered taboo. Even this year when famous white people were pressured to make comments about blm, there’s a very famous white porn actress who addressed this. Whether it’s the white female performers making the choice, or the white men in charge- black men are still being exploited for their race (yes I realize those women are being exploited for being female regardless of who they have sex with. matter of fact, woc are treated worse, paid less, and told they are less desirable and marketable than white female performers). If you want to ignore that, there’s no point in this discussion. White women can suffer from patriarchy and still be privileged. They aren’t mutually exclusive situations.

[–]lefterfield 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

Of course it's done for the fetish, and for the taboo. The question is "who is making these decisions," and "who is it marketed for?" It's not white women, I would suspect, most of the time. And I don't count being paid more for doing porn a privilege for white women. Getting a bigger bite of a shit sandwich is not a great deal. We can certainly talk about the fact that women of color are treated worse, within porn or elsewhere, but being paid more for your exploitation is still being exploited. The goal should be for no women to be exploited at all.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

I didn’t say that them being paid more means they are less exploited. I’m saying that white women have privilege for being white. And it shows up, even when they are exploited for being females in porn. The point is- the white women are also making this decision. I know what I’m talking about, I know people who have worked in porn i understand a lot of what happens behind the scenes. it is a strategy to avoid sleeping with black men until the most opportune moment for their career. Sleeping with a black man is compared to fetish acts, and white women in this industry understand that and use that. They use it by not sleeping with black men, they use it by making it a big exciting deal when they finally do. I don’t know how you either ignore this or don’t get it.

The conversation is not “is porn exploitative”, we know it is.

The conversation is also not “are woc treated worse” hopefully we all know the truth of that answer.

You can say that getting a bigger bite of a shit sandwich is not a great deal. Sure it’s not, but it’s still a better deal. And unless you’re one of the women getting a smaller bite, you don’t really have any right to say how a woc may feel about a white woman in the exact same industry as her getting more money, better treatment, and having more freedom of choice than her. Yes they are both being exploited- but I don’t get how you can acknowledge that white women are getting treated significantly better and then dismiss that truth?

The conversation isn’t even about porn at all (though it was referenced in the midst of the actual discussion), it’s also not even about woc compared to white Women. It’s literally about black men being fetishized by white women. And you seem unwilling to even go there but have some need to prove some point that I still don’t get.

[–]lefterfield 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

No, I think this is BS. Your only example of white women fetishizing black men comes from porn, and what ACTRESSES say who are STILL IN THE INDUSTRY. IE, women who are paid to perform for other people being paid to say that they also enjoy it. As far as "how I ignore this" - I don't spend a lot of my time watching porn interviews, as you apparently do? Who gives a shit if white women are more valuable to exploit by men, WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE EXPLOITED BY MEN. THIS IS A FEMINIST FORUM I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SAY THAT.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

It’s not my only example lmao. It’s the example that someone literally brought up to me and I addressed. What are you even talking about? Also- I literally said I know people who worked in this industry. I work in entertainment. Should I shun the women I know who used to do porn and want to talk to me about it? Sounds pretty shitty. Yes, I did research what I’m talking about. Because i discussed this at length with people who experienced it first hand and I wanted to understand better. I guess I’m just one of those people who likes to actually know what the fuck I’m talking about before I start talking. Sorry if that’s frustrating for you.

Can you show me where I said that women should be exploited by men? It sounds to me like you can’t handle the conversation because you’re not prepared to have it. No woman should be exploited, I agree. Im saying that you don’t have the right to try to sit here and say that women who are being treated even worse than women who are already being treated poorly is irrelevant. I didn’t say white women should shut up and be happy because at least they get called pretty and paid more while they’re being exploited. I said you’re ignoring important truths that exist- whether they should or shouldn’t exist. Truths that woc think are worth addressing. You can ignore them if you want, that’s your privilege, after all, but it doesn’t mean that woc don’t think these conversations are relevant and worth having. THIS IS A FEMINIST FORUM. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO SAY THAT WOC HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES THAN WHITE WOMEN OR THAT WHITE WOMEN SHOULDN’T BE DISMISSIVE OF THEIR EXPERIENCES. SEE? I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW I HAVE A POINT TO MAKE TOO.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (12 children)

Fuck off. You're not interested in discussing anything.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Lmfao “fuck off”? I’m clearly very willing to discuss.

[–]just_lesbian_things 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It’s literally about black men being fetishized by white women.

It happens in real life, but I doubt it happens as much as the other way around, simply because men tend to have more fetishes. I occasionally get fetishized by women too; I just imply no and she backs off. She's not going to rape me, she's not going to attack me, she isn't physically intimidating, and she doesn't exhibit the entitlement to my body a lot of men have. It never feels great to be reduced to a stereotype, but she doesn't have any power over me. Maybe it's different with heterosexual women.

I don’t get how you can acknowledge that white women are getting treated significantly better and then dismiss that truth?

Because they aren't. Interracial porn isn't really done for women, it's done for men. Most porn is done for men.

The porn industry doesn't suck in men the way it does women. Men who are in that position aren't typically there by accident- it takes a lot of effort on their part. The industry isn't really out there recruiting vulnerable young men the way it is vulnerable young women. Last I checked, women aren't going around en mass tricking/pressuring black (or any race of) teenage boys into doing porn through drug addiction or abusive relationships. I don't sympathize with men in the porn industry, regardless of race.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Oh. My. god. I am not defending black men. I am not talking about any of this. I was literally pointing out- initially to the op- that black men do get fetishized by white women sometimes and it is something that should be called out because it stems from and reinforces racism. And it’s like y’all are just saying “it’s okay get over it and don’t mention it” because black men are men? So white women can be racist to black men because they’re men, but snl can’t make fun of racist white women because they’re female?

I understand that men are stronger and more violent than women. I understand the fear and caution this necessitates. My whole point is that when white women get called out for racial fetishes, it’s shouldn’t just be dismissed because white women are female. Racism is racism regardless of your sex and I’d hope that real feminists would get that. I acknowledged that the situation can be reversed- But that’s not what the original post or my comment was referencing-it was about not dismissing a real issue amongst another marginalized group (black people) and saying that to me, SNL did nothing wrong by the sketch highlighting it. Since it’s not a feminist issue- it could’ve been left alone. instead of just ignoring it, or just saying “oh well Whatever that’s not related to feminism”and moving on, they decided to go back and forth with me over a topic that apparently shouldn’t even be discussed here.

I agree, it never feels great to be reduced to a stereotype. Be a it a sexist or racist one.

/2. Except we weren’t talking about just interracial porn. We were talking about porn, period, at that point. And yes, it is evident that white women get treated differently than woc in that industry. Yes they are still being exploited, yes it’s still all bad- my point, which I elaborated on, is that for a woc who works in that industry (not me- to be clear, I’m saying in general) it’s not as simple as saying “oh we’re both being exploited” there’s more to it than that because there is an element of racism in the discrepancies that the white performer is exempt from or benefiting from. Everybody loves to talk about intersectionality until we get to the parts where white women benefit from being white despite also being female.

I am not saying that the porn industry isn’t disgusting or abusive for any woman involved in it- I only said that there is even within that exploitative environment, a difference in the way those women are treated, and that difference is race. maybe people don’t want to hear that, maybe you don’t feel it’s relevant, but given the fact that we were talking about race through out the thread, it was relevant to me. I at no point said anything in support or defense of black men or men at all, let alone men in porn, I was asked- literally specifically asked about white women doing porn with black men- so that’s what I answered. I didn’t say I felt sorry for the black men allowing themselves to be exploited. I don’t, because in that situation they themselves are contributing to exploiting females. I was asked about the racial aspect of it- I gave my opinion. So all of this about men pressuring girls into porn and addiction and abuse- has nothing to do with any of what I said and There is nothing in what I said that indicates that I’m not aware of the dangers and abuses of this industry. I don’t need an education on this and would have said similar things as you If this were actually what I was discussing. It wasn’t. I swear I feel like every time I’ve ever discussed or seen someone else try to discuss anything concerning black people or poc on gender critical-even if it’s about black/poc women, these blinders go up and nobody can comprehend what is being said. And I think I figured out why lol. This is why woc made the gc sub for woc.

[–]thrownawaycan 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The reason I brought up the porn is because people have brought it up as proof of white women fetishizing/exploiting black men, and I guess I never got the impression that it was produced for white women. I wanted to understand if you felt it was related, since I really really struggle to see it as "for white women," but I never really could figure out who it was for if not black men and if not white women.

I guess to me, it just feels like a safe thing for them to call out for their audience (since shitting on white women is en vogue). I know that it being "safe" to call out doesn't mean it shouldn't be called out. From my perspective the way they carried it out just resulted in more harassment for being in a mixed race relationship (though my bf is not black, people I know quickly escalated to "white women fetishize all nonwhite men"). I guess ultimately you can't avoid such things and it's not the writers fault; I suppose it's just something I'll have to get use to dealing with going forward.

[–]loveSloane 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I actually think I read somewhere that that type of porn is most popular amongst white men. I could be wrong but I’ve heard that a few times.

I definitely agree that it’s “safe” and popular to call out white women currently. Sometimes it feels like what’s being called out should be, other times it feels like a way to deflect from a topic that makes white men (or just men) look bad. I think it’s good that privileged people, be they white, males, heterosexual etc, are being called out and asked to acknowledge their privilege, but I also think that it doesn’t (and shouldn’t) be okay for that criticism to spill over into questioning personal choices of any privileged person just because they have privilege. I don’t think that every white woman in a relationship with a poc is fetishizing them (my husband is white and I don’t think he fetishizes me), I do know that I’ve seen it often first hand, even sometimes I’ve seen white women in relationships with poc where they don’t even realize the racist and or fetishizing comments they’re making. I don’t think those types of assumptions should be made irl without knowing the people involved or seeing first hand someone fetishizing their partner, but I see how media can contribute to it happening.

[–]Shesstealthy 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As a white woman I can think of little porn j would less be attracted to viewing, with a title like that.

It's for white men.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who is all the "BBC destroys white teen pussy" porn for?

Gail Dines goes into it in Pornland and says it's for white men who hate white women. It's the same racist shit as the "cuck" idea coming from the incels. The most offensive thing is for your female or the females that are supposed to "belong" to you (in the racist sense of white women are white men's objects, etc.) to have sex with black men. It's supposed to hit another level of the degradation of a white woman to be getting "fucked" by the BBC.