Is there really any room for Gay men to speak up on Gender Critical?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You're probably right about the "GC Feminist cooties" but it's just so dumb because you can't pick and choose implying that Effeminate Gay Men and Super butch Lesbians are the "true trans" when the concept is just as ridiculous on them as it is on AGPs and that it really is just re-packaged conversion therapy.

Anyway, I don't think anyone yet has called you out for being on here, so maybe other posters also don't mind. I myself feel very strongly that we need men in this fight, partially because women just aren't listened to, but I do understand women who want to have spaces like this where it's only women discussing the issues.

And I totally understand that. I support women brave enough to speak out against this but like for example, I was watching a WOLF meetup panel and while they were all making good points, when it got to the Q&A section one of the audience members commented thinking that their stance against "Transwomen" seems very unsympathetic and I noticed that the guest panelists took a bit to address that comments talking among themselves before giving their answers and the answers were good but i really felt that someone like myself could've helped add to that comment assuring them that it's not about hate or even providing more info on what can make a man think he's a woman that isn't for Autogynephelic reasons.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think WoLF is so used to being on the defensive, because they get attacked so much, including by other women, that its now second-nature for them to hesitate before answering a tricky question.

I feel bad for people with gender dysphoria, when it's true gender dysphoria, same as I'd feel for anyone else with a distressing mental illness (don't know what the term is now), but when their demands affect my rights, well, no.

The difference between trans and women is that trans can simply change their appearance and their oppression disappears. And their oppression primarily comes from males, so to ask that women give up everything so that males can appear they way they claim to feel - NO.

Trans can work on other males to accept them, they can't take our rights.

Beyond trans activists, there is no other "oppressed" minority group that I can think of that demands another oppressed group's rights. But the bottom line (and I think this is a standard point of US law) is that trans rights end where mine begin.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I feel bad for people with gender dysphoria, when it's true gender dysphoria, same as I'd feel for anyone else with a distressing mental illness (don't know what the term is now), but when their demands affect my rights, well, no.

And I get that but I find that people don't even ask "why". Like why do these people find they are "born in the wrong body" and more often than not, I guarantee it's because they did something that broke a gender norm and they got some negative reaction or feeling for it because in the grand scheme of things, gender conformity is the majority.

The difference between trans and women is that trans can simply change their appearance and their oppression disappears. And their oppression primarily comes from males, so to ask that women give up everything so that males can appear they way they claim to feel - NO.

Agreed but Trans are not women in any way shape or form, they are just effemiante men (either effeminate homosexuals = HSTS, Autogynephelic fetish men, or just genuine hetero men who just like to be effeminate without it being a sexual thing).

Trans can work on other males to accept them, they can't take our rights.

Agreed. Effeminate men need to work with masculine men to get to a point where the masculine majority of men stop judging and ridiculing feminine men in the way that feminine women for the most part do not degrade and put down masculine women.

Beyond trans activists, there is no other "oppressed" minority group that I can think of that demands another oppressed group's rights. But the bottom line (and I think this is a standard point of US law) is that trans rights end where mine begin.

Right

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Have you heard of that mental illness in which the sufferer wants to cut off body parts? That's akin to what I think people who have genuine gender dysphoria suffer from. So it might not be treatable with therapy. And again, only a tiny fraction of the population have real gender dysphoria, the rest probably are more of what you're saying.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure but again, I just don't buy that someone is born with Gender Dysphoria and I guarantee you that if people actually asked these people to explain why they feel they were born in the wrong body, the red flags will be obvious where if the person is honest, they will share a story or arbitrary interest that aligns with the oppsite gender role (Wanting to wear makeup or dresses but being told they couldn't because they're a boy for examkple and I'm talking adolescent years here mind you).

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Previously gender/sex dysphoria was seen mostly in gay boys only at young age, and was dissapearing on its own with age. Almost all transsexuals were homosexual men as well. Maybe there was one girl with dysphoria on every 1000 boys, so it was almost exclusively male problem, mostly GNC or gay men problem. I think it has to do with heterosexual society and big stigma against "not being manly" for boys and men.

I had strong sex dysphoria for around a year in first school classes, and then weak one for a bit longer. It was called different here, something about "disattached from own sex". For me it was mostly because of the fact that everyone was saying "boys like girls and girls like boys", I liked boys, so in my kids brain logic - I was a girl then.

Women only had body dysmorphia at teen and puberty ages.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it has to do with heterosexual society and big stigma against "not being manly" for boys and men.

You nailed it. Because believe me as someone who has lived his life as a non-masculine guy who also doesn't look masculine neither,, I can say that most judgment I ever receive from people is usually men, not really women. And it's because Masculine men really judge and sometimes even get physically threatening towards non-conforming men. I remember having a glass bottle thrown at me when I was walking home from university one day, I've had guys shout derogatory phrases at me in passing, I've had a guy threaten to "beat my ass" when he thought I was a woman and saw that I wasn't (he was trying to cat call me, I said nothing to him), and so on. So I know how it is to be a feminine guy trying to navigate through life and how these negative experiences could definitely make a feminine guy think he's a woman or want to escape this kind of harassment by claiming to be trans.

I had strong sex dysphoria for around a year in first school classes, and then weak one for a bit longer. It was called different here, something about "disattached from own sex". For me it was mostly because of the fact that everyone was saying "boys like girls and girls like boys", I liked boys, so in my kids brain logic - I was a girl then.

Right that makes sense because in society, gay is taboo and we don't see representation of gay or lesbian relationships when we're growing up and because of that, it can be confusing to Gay youths.

Women only had body dysmorphia at teen and puberty ages.

Yeah I've observed this as well.