you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, though I'd say it's the association with the female that parents of boys are fleeing from. And you're right, Lesley and Leslie were traditionally male names. I thought that's what I was saying. Sorry I wasn't clear. (And Leslie Howard was considered quite a male heart throb in his day, though in an entirely different way to his peer & co-star Clark Gable.)

But Kim and Robin used to be very common male names in the Anglophone world too - and those have more of a hard sound than a soft one. And Frances & Francis, also once very common, both sound exactly the same; it's only when written that there's a difference. Similarly, when I was growing up in the 1960s there were plenty of kids of both sexes who went by Ricky, Jackie, Bobby and Charlie.

My point was simply that the trend of girls being given "neutral" or "male" names, or adopting them for themselves, predates the current trans craze by generations.

Most educated people have long been aware that girls and women will be subject to sex discrimination based solely on our names. Hence the long tradition of female authors - from George Eliot to the Bronte sisters in the 19th century to JK Rowling much more recently - adopting male pseudonyms so their books will get published and widely read. And the long tradition of girls going by names like "Scout" in "To Kill A Mockingbird" or George Kirrin in Enid Bly's "The Famous Five" novels.

The author of "We Need to Talk About Kevin" changed her name to "Lionel" Shriver more than 50 years ago. I knew an American woman (who'd be about 120 by now were she alive) who changed her name to "Vlad" in the early 20th century. One of my grandmothers was always known as "Fred" for some reason when her given name was Gertrude.

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes totally agree and that it predates the trans craze. I think the point I was trying to make in my very first comment is that “gender neutral” parenting of kids is often just aversion to femininity with respect to girls rather than an aversion to femininity being forced on a girl. I think on the boys‘ side it’s more likely to be “choose your own adventure” for them.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I remember an actress named Michael Learned.