all 14 comments

[–]yousaythosethings 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Nailed it! They NEVER answer the question “what human rights do they not have?” Or they talk about housing discrimination but when do you ever hear them bring up housing discrimination organically?

[–]assignedcopatbirth[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad you like it! Yeah I left off the obvious rights that nobody is actually fighting about. I hope this resource will show well-meaning libfems what they actually mean when they say #TransRightsAreHumanRights.

I think that hashtag is so manipulative because when you see it, your mind goes to the obvious stuff like "Of course trans people should have the right to vote, own property and get medical care! What monster would deny that??" But what they REALLY mean is they have the right to impose their gender performance on everyone, compel them to play along, and they get to silence anyone who points out the obvious trampling on other's rights as transphobia.

[–]loveSloane 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

30 is something I used to bring up in the reddit debate sub on almost every post. I never, not once, got any type of response to me saying that your rights can’t disrupt someone else’s. This aspect of what transwomen and their allies demand is the most infuriating for me.

[–]assignedcopatbirth[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I've found that point is the one where every TRA and TRA-aligned person suddenly ghosts the conversation and stops replying. We need a name for that phenomenon... the trans retreat 😅

[–]HarlanRogers 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The demands of TRA's are not for rights. They are for privileges.

[–]meranii 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, when normal male privilege is not good enough anymore.

[–]BEB 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's why I refuse to call them Trans Rights Activists or use TRA. It's Trans Demands Activists for me.

[–]assignedcopatbirth[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely this! That is exactly what I was hoping to get across. That they are masquerading their WANTS as NEEDS.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Great!

If you are still editing it, I'd suggest a few small changes here and there. Lmk if you're interested, and I'll post my suggestions if you are.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

OP, I know you don't want my two cents, but I'm adding them here anyway for others who might read.

Re, language generally:

instead of speaking of "bathrooms" I'd suggest saying "communal toilets."

Also, when speaking of the spaces women are concerned about, add in "changing rooms" - coz "changing rooms" covers a huge number of spaces that affect many of us: trying-on rooms in retail shops; changing rooms (and showers) in public and private gym, pool and recreational facilities; "locker rooms" & showers in schools; and changing rooms in the many workplaces where employees wear uniforms that are different to their street clothes.

Also, in pointing out the behaviors that girls & women don't want to be subjected to in female communal toilets, change rooms, shelters, prisons, etc - please don't focus exclusively on violent activities like sexual assault and murder. Coz touching isn't the only issue, nor is it the main issue here. Looking, smelling, listening are.

Most TIMs are not gonna assault or kill us in female spaces. But ALL TIMs - gay and straight - will be interested in looking at us, often in unseemly ways. The bottom line is, girls & women should not have to put up with being looked at and pried upon by males, regardless of how they identify, in these settings.

Doesn't matter if a male person is looking at our bodies in a leering, sexually aggressive heterosexual way, an obviously pervy way, a "merely" appraising way, an appreciative way, a jealous and covetous way, or a curious but non-sexually threatening way (as many gay TIMs do) - TIMs will always be looking with a male gaze that is inherently prurient. Forcing girls and women to have to put up with any male gaze in these situations is inappropriate and a violation of our rights to privacy, dignity and peace of mind.

Also, other factors must be taken into account: age differentials and the overt ageism of many TIMs; the extreme standards of beauty, femininity and acceptable female body types that most TIMs embrace and want to impose on those of us of the female sex; TIMs' often prurient attitudes and fetishes about female bodily functions such as menstruation, pregnancy and lactation; the racism of many TIMs and TRAs; and trans people's generally horrible attitudes towards persons with physical disabilities.

Just as it's not appropriate for TIMs in their teens, adulthood, middle age and their senior years to be gazing upon the bodies of perfectly healthy young girls and women in change rooms, it's not appropriate to create situations where young TIMs like Blaire White and Contrapoints and older TIMs like Jenner with all their tons of cosmetic surgery and plastic parts get to set their appraising, judgmental, jealous, covetous, often scornful and generally TIM supremacist eyes on the bodies of girls & women who for various reasons - age, race, pregnancy, weight, mastectomy and CS scars, cellulite, PCOS, menopause, physical disabilities - will inevitably not live up to these men's strict, porn-derived, drag-defined standards of what girls and women should look like.

[–]assignedcopatbirth[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for this! You make some really good points. I didn't mean to ghost your earlier comment, at the moment I'm only logging in every few days so some things get left behind.

This was only Draft 1 of the document, when I have time to revise it I'll definitely add your suggestions!

I think the male gaze point is a very powerful one, there's a lot to unpack so maybe it needs to be its own resource, like a "But they just want to pee!" rebuttal image or something. I'll have a think about it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, another reason not to let these guys into our toilets, change rooms, shelters, prison is that the vast majority of TIMs are sexually attracted to women, and those who are not still fetishize the female body and have a prurient interest in looking at what real girls & women's bodies look (& smell & sound) like in an up-close & personal way.

[–]our_team_is_winning 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's not appropriate to create situations where young TIMs like Blaire White and Contrapoints and older TIMs like Jenner with all their tons of cosmetic surgery and plastic parts get to set their appraising, judgmental, jealous, covetous, often scornful and generally TIM supremacist eyes on the bodies of girls & women

YES! Sometimes I think Blaire is a decent person, but his whole Peggy Bundy style "woman performance" is gross and he's still a man. He can mutilate himself or whatever, but he shouldn't be calling himself a woman. The performance he puts on is like the "snow bunny" from some cheesy 80s film.

I haven't felt the same ever since I read someone's post, and I don't recall who she was but thank you (!), that men like this want a look at real women (like there aren't enough naked photos online?) to try to copy them and imitate them more. Like actors researching a role.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

My human rites!